“The only thing that can take Haiti out of its current crisis is dialogue”

Jimmy Chérizier, Haitian revolutionary leader and spokesman for Vivre Ensemble, speaks with Christian missionary Victor Marx in Haiti

The Hot Zone with Chuck Holton: “Meeting with the Leaders of Haitian Gangs”

Interview with Jimmy “Babekyou” Chérizier posted on YouTube by Chuck Holton on October 19, 2024

JIMMY CHÉRIZIER (through translator): The police here are corrupt.

Out of every ten police officers, eight are in gangs, criminals or thieves, stealing.

They participate in kidnappings.

They are involved in stealing merchandise.

They’re involved in taking people and trafficking their organs.

They sell drugs.

From the biggest chiefs, all the way down to the lowest.

[0:59]

TRANSLATOR: That’s why he, who’s led this charge, this movement of the Vivre Ensemble — Jimmy always says this: Unless there’s a dialogue, unless Haitians can come sit at the table, you know?

He’s forced the hand of everybody. The international community, the politicians, the oligarchs. They’re going to have to sit with them, or nothing’s going to change. It’s going to stay status quo.

VICTOR MARX: I talked to the president of Haiti —

TRANSLATOR: Are you talking about [Acting Prime Minister] Garry Conille? 

MARX: No. Leslie —

TRANSLATOR: [Transitional Presidential Counsel President] Leslie Voltaire.

CHÉRIZIER (through translator): They’re all corrupted. They’ve all been in power before. They’ve all contributed to what is modern-day Haiti.

They’ve destabilized the country. Everything they’ve done, they’ve been part of that process. 

TRANSLATOR: Leslie, of course, has been part of that. Garry Conille has been part of that. 

[2:00]

They’ve destabilized everything here. They’re the reason why there are gangs in this neighborhood and that neighborhood. Because they’ve never given the Haitian people a chance.

CHÉRIZIER (through translator): The only thing that can take Haiti out of its current crisis is dialogue. 

TRANSLATOR: And you’ll never get that from western media! 

MARX (to camera): Are y’all listening to this?

CHÉRIZIER (through translator): There’s no force coming from abroad — whether it’s the Kenyans, Jamaicans, Americans, whoever — that are going to change Haiti.

The Americans have proved that already, with intervention after intervention.

Since Ariel Henry was deposed, I have been saying over and over and over: The only thing that can take Haiti out of its current crisis is dialogue. Sitting at the table. Everybody. The poor black Haitians along with the rich light-skinned ones.

[3:00]

MARX: How do we prove that he hasn’t done all the horrible crimes that — the ones that [inaudible]?

CHÉRIZIER (through translator): You come from a big country, the United States, where there is justice, right? 

You can’t ever stand on anything, and call it truth, without it being proved, one way or the other, right?

I’ve put everybody, and said prove, show me, come show me a bit of evidence — a photo, a video, any testimony of anybody. They haven’t been able to prove anything!

TRANSLATOR: So, in a real country with — like the United States, has a justice system, he would have been able to walk, Scot free, and he would have been cleared! 

And then he could have sued for the defamation of his character!

[4:00]

CHÉRIZIER (through translator): There has never been, first of all — and he would like to see somebody — ever testify in front of a tribunal that he ever sacrificed or massacred anybody, killed anybody.

The reason, I want the whole world to know, the reason why they put this dossier on my back [is] because I’m fighting against a corrupt system. That’s it. 

The oligarchs, the journalists, the politicians, I’m fighting against all of them. And so, they’re always going to say these things about me.

[5:08]

Those twelve families that have a monopoly on everything in Haiti, where the five percent basically run everything, and the ninety-five percent have no say.

No rights, no justice, no nothing.

MARX: That’s interesting. Because Lanmo Sanjou has one million dollars on his head. Vitel’homme has two million. You, zero.

CHÉRIZIER (through translator): The oligarchs and the politicians were using those guys. To do their work.

MARX: And that’s what Americans want to know. If you had more power, and legitimate authority, would you hold accountable gangs that have done very bad things?

[6:20]

CHÉRIZIER (through translator): First of all, it’s important to understand and know how they got to that point, to where they’ve done, or been accused, of whatever they’re saying they’ve done.

They see guys like Vitel’homme and Lanmo Sanjou kidnap this, do this, do that. Right? But they don’t see behind the scenes […] about the real gangs, the big gangs, that wear suits and ties, that put them in the situation to do that. That are feeding money and guns.

Vitel’homme, he never kidnapped people before.

The opposition against Jovenel [Moïse], the oligarchs then started feeding them money.

They would have those guys kidnap people on purpose to show the international community that Jovenel couldn’t govern and couldn’t put security in his own country.

MARX: That’s very important.

TRANSLATOR: It’s a game.

[7:32]

CHÉRIZIER (through translator): They gave them total access to do whatever they wanted, and not be arrested or anything happen to them.

So, when Jovenel was no longer there, they just wiped their dossiers clean.

In that moment, in that time, that’s when I and the other guys created the Vivre Ensemble group. 

So, now, all the oligarchs and politicians that were the boss of these said gangs, now they’ve lost control of all that. And the Vivre Ensemble group is together. 

TRANSLATOR: And Jimmy, is what you call the power president of the group. He’s the one, the face, he’s the president. He’s the one that speaks to the public, to the international community.

And they all respect him.

MARX: Yes. 

[8:25]

TRANSLATOR: From Izo [Johnson André] to Lanmo Sanjou, they all respect Jimmy for who he is, what he does. And they love him.

CHÉRIZIER (through translator): They all respect me because I have never kidnapped anybody. 

MARX: Right.

CHÉRIZIER (through translator): I don’t kidnap people, I don’t steal, and I’ve never killed anyone for money.

MARX: Ok.

[8:56]

CHÉRIZIER (through translator): The guns that are in my hands, in my group’s hands, we are fighting for the change of the lives of the people around them.

If the Haitian government were serious, they would come and have a dialogue. And come together with the Vivre Ensemble guys, and change the country for the betterment of the people.

MARX: So I — and I know this, and this is a very important point. So, to show legitimacy. Because the world — the international community — are saying [Cherizier] is the most powerful person in Haiti.

[9:37]

CHÉRIZIER (through translator): Because they see that I have leadership —

MARX: Right! 

CHÉRIZIER (through translator): — to put all the guys together.

And I am also one that they can’t buy.

If I wanted the international community to take me for a good person, then I would start doing the jobs, the dirty jobs, for people —

MARX: Right.

CHÉRIZIER (through translator): — and I would work like I had a boss. Then, I would never speak about a revolution any more. 

TRANSLATOR: That’s when they would love him! Because he wouldn’t be rocking the boat any more.

CHÉRIZIER (through translator): I wouldn’t be asking for clean water. For school for kids. I would never be a bother to the oligarchs, or the politicians, or the media. I would just do what they ask me to do.

So, if I lived like that, in a year or two, they would sell my image to the world as a great person.

[10:40]

MARX: So, for us, to change these optics, this really matters. If he can say, on camera, and tell his gang — no orphanages, no burning, no missionaries. So that the Christian community in America can come back.

That’s one.

The second thing — I know this is harder. But, Sanjou. Gantier. He wants the road open so the trucks can come. There’s 30,000 people who fled Gantier. Orphans, you know. Including handicapped orphans! Many.

Many!

They don’t trust him. I was there when they were burning and raping people.

CHÉRIZIER (through translator): Lanmo Sanjou wants them to come back. And the Vivre Ensemble group is currently talking to him about making that a condition to where the people can come.

[11:55]

We’ve been negotiating with him, for him to be of good conscience, in good faith, he’ll let them come back.

Garry Conille, guys like that, so, in the dirty way they play politics here, are always kind of — for example, pretending they were going to do an operation there.

MARX: Right.

CHÉRIZIER (through translator): But really, they don’t have any intentions. No courage of their convictions.

So, as long as there’s more insecurity, and things of that nature, then an election will never happen. And things will just stay status quo.

And in the meantime, Garry Conille will stay the prime minister, and all these other counsel members will stay in charge.

If the Haitian national police wanted to do something serious, in this country, on my life, there would be a national dialogue. To where, in one month’s time, everyone in Haiti would be able to circulate easy, and go where they want.

MARX: Yes.

[13:18]

CHÉRIZIER (through translator): Everyone in Gantier would go back to their homes.

Everybody in [inaudible] would go back. Everybody in Gressier would go back.

All the homes the guys with guns took, I would make them give them all back.

But at the same time, I’m going to need to give these guys something.