U.S. Senate Roundtable: “The Exploitation Crisis: How the U.S. Government Fails to Protect Migrant Children.” National Press Club, Washington, DC. July 9, 2024.
Dr. Jarrod Sadulski, Tara Lee Rodas, Deborah White and Shavaun Harris testified.
Video (YouTube) (2:00:54)
Records shared by Senator Grassley are here.
[1:02]
Sen. GRASSLEY: I thank you, Senators Johnson and Cassidy, for co-leading this roundtable, and of course I thank the panelists for being here. You’re doing a great public service by testifying at this roundtable.
Today we’re going to discuss a matter of significant importance. Through Congressional oversight, we’re trying to hold [the] executive branch accountable. Not just in the area of child exploitation, but it’s a constitutional responsibility for all facets of the government.
We’re discussing protecting children from exploitation and harms when they arrive in the United States without a parent or guardian.
During the previous administration, we frequently heard very sharp criticism, from democrats, that Trump was putting kids in cages. In reality, these children were housed in a facility, and their well-being was a top priority.
The mainstream media was outraged when the Trump [administration] couldn’t account for 1,900 migrant kids.
Biden has literally lost over 85,000 kids. And we don’t hear a peep about it from the media, and that’s stunningly unacceptable. Because the media has as much responsibility to hold all of government responsible — not just through Congressional oversight.
Biden’s Department of Heath and Human Services is endangering these vulnerable children in many ways. HHS is placing children with sponsors who aren’t fully vetted. HHS has reduced background checks.
[3:20]
HHS has failed to make sure identification documents submitted by potential sponsors are really authentic. HHS isn’t doing legally required home studies.
And that, of course, is just the tip of the iceberg.
These problems are now a full-blown crisis. This administration’s failure to secure the southern border has resulted in a huge surge of unaccompanied children.
That failure, coupled with this administration’s order to speed up processing of these children, has resulted in serious risk to those same children.
[4:13]
In 2015 I raised concerns about HHS rushing children out the door to a sponsor who wasn’t vetted right. HHS has now admitted it has cut the length of stay down more than twenty percent. Now, that’s not more vetting — that’s more rushing.
Just like Secretary Becerra wanted, an assembly line, using his words.
In late 2015, I received whistleblower information that minors were being released to sponsors with criminal records. That included domestic violence and child molestation — potentially life-threatening for those individuals.
[5:10]
I asked this during a February 26 Judiciary Committee hearing, on this very issue, and I quote myself: How many more minors have been released into the care of others who claim to be their parents or family friends, who don’t really care about their well-being? End of my quote.
When I last chaired the Senate Finance Committee, I launched an oversight investigation with my colleague, democratic ranking member Wyden, now chairman of that committee, we did it on these very same issues. That investigation carried over into my ranking membership on the Judiciary Committee the last Congress.
[5:58]
Our bipartisan investigation revealed HHS’s failure to conduct basic oversight needed to ensure the safety of children from sexual and physical abuse at its shelters.
Unfortunately, children are still suffering, and HHS has failed to get its act together.
Accordingly, I’ve continued my oversight work on the Budget Committee. No matter what committee I’m on, this issue will remain important to me.
I’ve recently expanded my ongoing investigation. For example, internal government records have been obtained showing that the Biden HHS and one of the major contractors, Cherokee Federal, has placed kids in very dangerous situations even after being warned not to place them there.
[7:00]
I’ve written to two dozen HHS contractors and grantees to ask what they’re doing to prevent children from falling into the hands of traffickers and those trying to exploit these children. These entities collectively receive billions of taxpayer dollars, and thus have a duty to answer Congress when it wants to know how those funds are all being spent.
The Biden administration’s HHS instructed these very entities that I wrote to not to respond to the senator, and intead to direct my inquiry back to HHS. Now, this is obstruction. Just like the Biden EPA tried to do in my oversight work of some of those contractors.
[8:02]
HHS wants those contractors to be silent. And you will soon see why they want them to be silent. The United States Congress must demand that silence be broken.
I won’t tire in seeking those answers. Today, we’re going to take another step on that path with this forum.
[8:28]
And as part of our next step, together, my colleagues and I will be requesting that the Government Accountability Office conduct updated work to ensure that HHS’s Unaccompanied [Alien] Children’s program has proper internal controls.
Of course, my other investigative activities will continue, and no stone will be left unturned. For example, in January of this year, I issued a law enforcement referral to the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI regarding evidence of human trafficking that I obtained.
These children deserve nothing less than our maximum effort.
Now I’d like to recognize Senator Cassidy for his opening statement, and then Senator Johnson will follow him. And then I’ll introduce the people that are at our panel. We thank you for participating.
[9:39]
Sen. BILL CASSIDY: Thank you, Senator Grassley. Thank you, Senators Johnson and Cornyn, here, and all of you for participating in this extremely important roundtable.
When President Biden took office, we had the lowest rate of illegal immigration that we had had in nearly fifty years.
But instead of maintaining strong border policies inherited from the previous administration, President Biden rushed to overturn them.
He ended remain in Mexico, reimposed so-called catch and release, and exempted unaccompanied children from Title 42. Predictably, these open border policies encouraged one of the worst rates of illegal immigration ever — including over 500,000 unaccompanied migrant children.
In fact, the month after unaccompanied children were exempted from Title 42, there was the highest monthly total of these children crossing the southern border in history.
[10:31]
The Office of Refugee Resettlement — ORR — has the responsibility of caring for unaccompanied children once they cross the border, ensuring that they are released to safe and thoroughly vetted sponsors.
Now, the surge of migrant children under President Biden overwhelmed ORR, and children were hastily sent to emergency care facilities with undertrained and unvetted staff and poor living conditions.
As the surge continued, ORR staff were directed by their superiors to prioritize speed over safety, and to limit the amount of information collected when releasing children to sponsors.
Even HHS Secretary Becerra pushed for faster results, telling ORR staff that the sponsor vetting process should be modeled after Henry Ford’s assembly line, with quote machine-like efficiency.
[11:28]
This means either the government workers doing this project — who were often working from home, by the way, they weren’t in the office, they were working from home — are extremely inefficient, or it shows a willingness by the department to override normal precautionary safety measures.
[11:40]
To speed up the process, ORR dramatically weakened its oversight of the sponsor vetting program, including making many vetting requirements optional. Under these policies ORR would not require to check if a sponsor had a criminal record, or to even verify that the sponsor’s identity is real.
For context, out of the 342 case files reviewed from March 2021 to April 2021, ORR did not conduct background checks on 54 cases before sponsors took custody of the children.
This is unbelievable. This is incredibly troubling.
[12:25]
So, what are the effects?
Children are being released into dangerous environments to be exploited for illegal labor, leading to serious injuries such as dismemberment and shattered bones. There is even a press account of one child dying when he was pulled into a meat processing machine.
The Biden administration is failing these children. It’s failing basic human rights.
It seems to have decided it is more politically expedient to release children as quickly as possible, without going through essential checks to ensure children are not being released into harmful environments to be abused and exploited.
For years, member of Congress — my colleagues and I — have urged the Biden administration to make real reforms to ORR and protect these children.
Instead, ORR released a final rule codifying nearly all of its failed sponsor-vetting policies, and put these failed policies into agency regulations.
[13:26]
I appreciate Senator Grassley’s leadership in championing a congressional review act, to overturn this harmful rule, and to hold the administration accountable for its activities that put these children in danger.
As ranking member of the [U.S. Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions] HELP Committee — the committee with oversight of ORR, and child labor laws — I’m investigating the Biden administration’s failure to protect migrant children from exploitation.
Since 2023 I’ve sent seven letters to multiple federal agencies, including the Office of Refugee Resettlement and the Department of Labor, seeking information to better understand the effects of Biden’s policies.
Regrettably, the Biden administration has refused to cooperate with our investigation.
[14:07]
Failing to respond altogether, or providing vague responses copied and pasted from press releases.
Perhaps more shockingly, it has even prevented private entities from cooperating with our investigation. When I requested information from an ORR contractor intimately involved with the sponsor vetting process, ORR attempted to block them from answering our questions, instead referring our inquiries to the HHS Secretary of Legislative Affairs.
[14:36]
This blatant lack of transparency with the American people is reprehensible. Frankly, it’s hard to see this as anything other than an effort to cover up and shield the Biden administration from scrutiny for its mistreatment and mishandling of unaccompanied children.
Perhaps particularly in an election year with the president behind in the polls.
Stopping the exploitation of children should not be partisan. This is not a Republican or Democratic issue.
[15:06]
When vulnerable children are harmed, or die, at the expense of bad policies, everyone should be outraged. Everyone should be seeking to do things better.
President Biden, you have the power to prevent this.
You can secure our border and reform ORR to protect children from harm. Unfortunately, you’re choosing to manage the border crisis as a messaging issue for your campaign rather than addressing the humanitarian catastrophe that has resulted from your policies.
If exploitation of children will not force this president into action, I’m not sure what will.
Thank you to our witnesses for coming today to speak. We must protect vulnerable children from further harm.
GRASSLEY: Thank you, Senator Cassidy. Now, Senator Johnson.
[15:52]
RON JOHNSON: Senator Grassley, I want to thank you for leading this effort. Your dogged determination in investigating this unbelievably serious issue.
Want to thank Senator Cassidy, Senator Cornyn, and our other colleagues who will join us here. Certainly want to thank the witnesses and the whistleblowers. Also want to thank you for whistleblower protection over the years, we need more of them, going forward.
My primary point is — what we’re going to be discussing today, examining, revealing, should come as no surprise to anyone.
[16:22]
We’ve known.
Since the start of the Biden administration, I don’t know how many times I’ve said it: Biden, and his democrat colleagues, their open border policy facilitates the multi-billion dollar business model of some of the most evil people on the planet. Drug traffickers, human traffickers, sex traffickers.
This has been obvious.
I became chairman of [the Senate] Homeland Security [Committee] in 2015, the last two years of the Obama administration, all four years during the Trump administration. We held something like 36 hearings on the problems associated with illegal immigration.
[16:56]
This was with, during the Trump administration, a president who actually wanted to secure the border and stop the flow. Thirty-six hearings.
In one of those hearings, on June 26, 2019 we heard testimony about a 51-year-old man who was apprehended. And before they did an identity blood test, DNA test, he confessed that he came across the border posing as a family unit with an infant child that he bought for $84. That was testimony before the Homeland Security Committee in 2019. Vice President Kamala Harris was on my committee at that point in time. So, again, this should come as a surprise to nobody.
Of course, Project Veritas, on November 29, 2022 released a video with an interview with one of our witnesses, Tara Lee Rodas.
[17:55]
A few days after that, I wrote a letter, joined by four of my colleagues — I just want to read a couple segments from this — this was to HHS Secretary Becerra.
“We write concerning an alarming report by a federal employee whistleblower that the Department of Health and Human Services is knowingly transferring unaccompanied migrant children in the custody of criminals, including sex traffickers.
“If these claims are true,” we wrote — we certainly know they are true — “this is pure evil being committed by your agency. This cannot be swept under the rug. The American public must know the truth about what is happening to these victims of the Biden administration’s inhumane open border policy.”
We wrote that letter December 5, 2022.
[18:42]
Now, you would think, with the revelations of that whistleblower interview by Project Veritas, with a letter from five U.S. senators expressing concern about what is happening to children — unaccompanied minors! — being taken into custody by U.S. agency officials, you would think the secretary of Health and Human Services would jump on that, investigate this and clean it up.
He didn’t even respond to our letter.
That’s what we’re dealing with here. We’re talking about total neglect.
[19:20]
Fast-forward, February 23, 2023. The New York Times — of all publications! — writes an article about this. And, God bless the reporter, Hannah Dreier, for her investigatory work. That’s exactly what Senator Grassley was talking about, we need an investigatory press that holds both sides equally accountable.
She writes an article: 85,000 children, unaccompanied children, apprehended, given over to HHS, ORR, released to a sponsor, are unaccounted for. Eight-five thousand children. And again, that’s over a year ago!
[20:02]
Has the Biden administration, has Secretary Becerra, has Secretary Mayorkas — have they hopped on this? Have they put all hands on deck to dig into this, to make sure this doesn’t happen? That these children are protected?
No, they won’t even respond to our oversight letters.
That’s what we’re dealing with, here. The American public has to understand: This isn’t an accident.
[20:26]
They want an open border, they caused this problem.
They’re well aware of the inhumanity, of the depredations being visited on the people that they claim to have a humane open border policy for.
So, that’s what’s at stake. Again, I truly appreciate the witnesses, our whistleblowers, Senator Grassley, all the work you’ve done on this.
And I’m looking forward to the testimony.
I hope the American people are listening. And even more importantly, I hope Secretary Becerra, Mayorkas [and] President Biden, listen to this and actually start doing something about it before another child is raped, or trafficked, or murdered, or decapitated.
[21:10]
GRASSLEY: Well, now to our witnesses. [inaudible] … Harris, I invited HHS to attend, but they unfortunately declined, as you can understand, exactly what Senator Johnson said about their willingness to discuss this, either by letter or in person.
Notably on June 26, this year, I wrote a letter to HHS requesting records relating to sponsor vetting, among other items. The due date for production was yesterday. And I get the same result that Johnson got — ‘cause HHS has failed to respond.
[20:04]
Tara Rodas is an employee with the Council of the Inspector General on Integrity and Efficiency, has been part of the federal Inspector General community for 18 years. She’s also a fellow at the Research Center for Excellence to Counter Human Trafficking. Tara served as a federal detailee to HHS emergency intake site in California in 2021.
Deborah White is an employee with the General Services Administration with over 17 years of acquisition, contracting and project management experience. And like Tara, she was detailed to California emergency intake site in 2021.
Both Tara and Deborah will speak in their capacity as whistleblowers, and they don’t speak on behalf of their current employers.
[23:10]
Dr. Jarrod Sadulski is a professor, criminologist, and recognized expert on human trafficking. He conducts research in Central America and at the U.S. border on trends in human trafficking. Thank you all for appearing, and I’d like to turn it over to Senator Cassidy.
[23:33]
CASSIDY: It’s my pleasure to introduce Secretary Shevaun Harris, Secretary of the Florida Department of Children and Families. Secretary Harris began her career as a social worker, and has now spent over two decades doing policy and administration in the field of health and human services.
Today she’ll speak about the impact of President Biden’s policies on the state of Florida, and decisions the state has had to make with regard to licensing ORR facilities. She will also speak about ORR’s obstruction of her agency’s oversight of unaccompanied children, and solutions the state is implementing to prevent these children from being exploited. Secretary Harris, thank you for making time to be here today to share your insights on this important topic.
[24:15]
SHEVAUN HARRIS: Thank you, Senators Cassidy, Grassley and Johnson. As secretary for the Florida Department of Children and Families, the safety and wellbeing of Florida’s youth is my top priority. I’m honored to have this opportunity to share the stark reality of what unaccompanied illegal immigrant children face under the Biden administration’s failed border policies.
[24:38]
The Biden administration’s intentional refusal to secure our border or enforce our immigration laws — which require proper vetting of foreign nationals — has led to an unprecedented surge of illegal border crossings, including hundreds of thousands of unaccompanied children.
[24:55]
The Office of Refugee Resettlement strives to place vulnerable youth with supposedly vetted sponsors. However, due to the overwhelming volume, they cannot keep up, creating a perfect breeding ground for predators and those with malicious intentions to take advantage of those unfortunate circumstances.
This issue has been worsened by the federal government’s lack of transparency, putting these youth, and all Americans, at great risk, as some individuals pretend to be minors to commit crimes in our country.
[25:24]
We’ve witnessed this firsthand in Florida. Thankfully Florida has a strong leader in Governor Ron DeSantis who has been leading the fight against this issue by strengthening laws, supporting law enforcement efforts and allocating significant resources to combat human trafficking.
Florida has stopped licensing foster and group homes working with ORR until a cooperative agreement [can be] reached with the federal government. This action was necessary due to inadequate vetting of sponsors and lack of follow-up by ORR to ensure the safety and well-being of the children placed with their sponsor.
[25:58]
We interviewed a young girl who shared that on her journey over the border, people in her group were robbed, several girls — including her — were raped, and she witnessed a decapitation. This is the reality the federal government has created by failing to secure our border.
The Department of Health and Human Services never agreed to our request for a cooperative agreement. Their spokesperson very clearly stated that they would not agree to the level of transparency sought by the state.
[26:22]
As a mom, I can only imagine the desperation a parent must feel to send their child away, alone, to travel through harsh conditions, for what they believe will be a better life.
The reality is that in many instances these minors are being trafficked across countries, placed with strangers and forced to work illegal jobs to pay back the coyotes who brought them here.
[26:42]
They may endure all kinds of abuse at the hands of their so-called sponsors our federal government approved. In Florida we’ve seen a 35 percent increase in verified abuse cases for UACs since 2021.
After Governor DeSantis requested the Florida Supreme Court set up a Grand Jury to investigate the impact of the border crisis on Floridians, including the unsafe practice of bringing unaccompanied children into the state, many troubling discoveries came to light — including the involvement of non-governmental organizations, under the guidance of ORR — in knowingly placing children in unsafe and unvetted environments.
[27:19]
We’ve observed that decisive action to tackle illegal immigration has been effective.
Governor DeSantis has signed the strongest anti-illegal immigration laws in the country, which prohibit drivers licenses for illegal immigrants, bans sanctuary cities, and requires hospitals to track and report the number of illegal immigrants they see every day, which led to a more than 50 percent decrease in the amount of funding spent on Medicaid for illegal immigrants.
We appreciate your interest in this critical issue. Our hope is that Congress can be armed with the information needed to hold ORR accountable, and can demand greater oversight.
Thank you. […]
[28:15]
DEBORAH WHITE: Thank you, Senator Grassley, and honorable senators, for standing up for exploited children.
My name is Deborah White. I’m a federal employee that was detailed to the Health and Human Services Office of Refugee Resettlement (HHS ORR) in the summer of 2021 to help unaccompanied children entering the country.
As a Hispanic American, and a professional with certifications in project management and contracting, I believed that my language and professional skills could be valuable in reuniting children with their families. What I discovered was horrifying.
[28:48]
Make no mistake. Children were not going to their parents. They were being trafficked, with billions of taxpayer dollars, by a contractor failing to vet sponsors and process children safely.
With government officials complicit in it.
In June 2021, I discovered the first case of trafficking and along with my counterpart, Tara Rodas, reported it. But children continued to be sent to dangerous locations with improperly vetted sponsors.
One case in Florida had over 12 children linked to one sponsor at multiple addresses.
Children were sent to addresses that were abandoned houses, or non-existent in some cases. In Michigan, a child was sent to an open field. Even after we reported making a 911 call, after hearing someone scream for help, yet the child was still sent.
When I raised concerns about contractor failures, and asked to see the contract, I was told, and I quote: You’re not going to get the contract, and don’t ask for it again.
[29:56]
So I took it upon myself to create trainings for significant incident reports of sexual abuse, and for flagging trafficking, in order to equip case managers.
But children continued to be sent to dangerous places. We never saw sponsors face to face, and fake documents were rampant.
When we questioned documents, HHS ORR leadership said, you’re not a fake ID expert and your job is not to investigate the sponsor, your job is to reunify the child with the sponsor.
Contacting the Guatemalan consulate in regard to fake documents resulted in a reprimand by the HHS ORR official, stating: That’s not your job, and you are never to contact the consulate again.
[30:42]
When I checked on a child’s welfare at another facility, I was told, and I quote: Do not do that again. Once these children leave here, they’re gone. And they are no longer your responsibility.
Thirty-day wellness calls, required by HHS ORR policy, revealed that many sponsors no longer had the children in their custody. And many case managers became frantic. But HHS ORR leadership instructed us to stop doing the 30-day calls and stated that they would be done at the national call center from now on.
Repeatedly the program prioritized speed over safety. HHS ORR and Cherokee Federal, the prime contractor created a “strike team” to remove children faster, ignoring warnings that came from case managers that children were being trafficked.
As a certified project manager and contracting official, I could have ensured that the contract terms were being upheld. But my offers for help were repeatedly rejected.
Cherokee Federal staffed the site with several unqualified, unvetted, and quite frankly dangerous contractors with access to vulnerable children that did not get the appropriate support, services or humanity that they deserved after a most treacherous journey.
[32:08]
I have seen these children, I have interviewed these children, and I have stories that will haunt me for the rest of my life.
The HHS ORR program is the biggest failure in government history that I have ever witnessed.
Despite raising case after case of trafficking, HHS ORR leadership and the contractor allowed children to be trafficked on their watch, and the taxpayers continue to fund it.
I plead with you to give these exploited children a fighting chance. Please save them, and investigate this program.
We’ve spent countless hours with Senator Grassley’s staff as part of this investigation. Despite these tremendous efforts, children continue to be trafficked into America. And we are paying for it!
Please understand, this is taxpayer-funded child slavery, sanctioned by our government and brought to you by NGOs like Cherokee Federal.
We are the United States of America. We can do better, and by God, we must do better.
I cannot stand by and do nothing while children’s lives are at stake. Can you? Please, I urge every senator to investigate this matter, as Senator Grassley is doing. And I plead for every American to demand action. Thank you. […]
[33:44]
TARA LEE RODAS: Senator Grassley and honorable senators. Thank you for your tireless efforts to protect migrant unaccompanied children from abuse, neglect, labor trafficking, sex trafficking and other unspeakable horrors.
I especially appreciate Senator Grassley’s oversight unit’s extensive, multi-year investigation into sponsors who obtained children under suspicious circumstances, and sponsors who have known criminal histories, to include gang affiliations.
Now, what keeps me up at night is wondering about the safety and wellbeing of children.
I think about a 16-year-old girl from Guatemala. I’ll call her Carmen.
Her sponsor claimed he was her older brother. But after Carmen was released from the unaccompanied children program to her sponsor in North Carolina, she appeared in a photo on his social media.
He was touching her inappropriately. It was very clear her sponsor was not her brother.
Later, Carmen appeared on her sponsor’s social media again. This time, she was alone. She was all dolled up. Her hair was styled, her makeup was done, and her shirt was unbuttoned.
The ORR federal field specialist said Carmen looked drugged, and that she was for sale.
It was later discovered that Carmen’s sponsor had other social media accounts containing child pornography. What keeps me up at night is wondering if Carmen is safe.
[35:16]
I think about a 13-year-old girl from El Salvador. I’ll call her Maria.
Maria was released from the unaccompanied children program to a sponsor in Ohio with confirmed MS-13 gang affiliation.
It is unthinkable that the United States government would release a child to a sponsor associated with a gang. What keeps me up at night is wondering if Maria is safe.
More than 500,000 children like Carmen and Maria have arrived at our border, alone. Alone! These children are funneled through a network of US government agencies and contractors, and non-governmental organizations.
They have little or no training in how to protect children from trafficking and abuse.
[36:04]
More than 8,300 of these children were funneled through the Pomona Fairplex emergency intake site, where I had the privilege to serve as the deputy to the director of the federal case management team.
I can tell you, if I had not seen with my own eyes, these children, I could not believe that a federal government agency is using billions of taxpayer dollars to place vulnerable migrant children into the hands of sponsors with criminal history, gang affiliation — to whom many are not even their parents.
It is shocking and shameful. As a whistleblower I’d like to thank Senator Grassley for being a trusted pathway to report. In my estimation, it’s the most horrific injustices against children that I have witnessed in my entire federal career.
[36:54]
It’s important to note that when I reported the MS-13 case and provided evidence that other MS-13 and 18th Street gang members were sponsoring children, ORR retaliated against me! In just 16 days after making my first protected disclosure to the Department of Justice Inspector General, the Honorable Michael Horowitz, I was taken off the MS-13 case by ORR. The [federal field supervisor] FFS told me I was under investigation. I was escorted off my job by FFS and security.
My badge was taken. For my personal safety, my home agency offered to send armed agents to escort me from California back to Washington, DC.
So, Senator Grassley, and honorable senators, I thank you for protecting whistleblowers like me, and again, I thank you for your tireless efforts to protect these children from trafficking and abuse. I’ll be happy to answer any questions that you may have. […]
[37:55]
Dr. JARROD SALDUSKI
Senator Grassley, honorable senators. Thank you for prioritizing this critical issue.
Senator Grassley, I especially want to thank you for the legislation you championed to enhance protection for these vulnerable children.
Your insistence on calling for HHS to reform ORR is especially admirable.
I also want to thank you for your ongoing investigation of potential trafficking and exploitation of children in the ORR program responsible for placing unaccompanied children with sponsors in the United States. Thank you, sir.
In an effort to further understand the inner workings of trafficking — specifically child trafficking — I’ve interviewed former sex traffickers who are currently incarcerated or were incarcerated in the United States and abroad.
Sadly, in my research I found that there is a market for juvenile organ harvesting. Unaccompanied minors are especially vulnerable, en route to the border, of this threat.
[38:52]
Cartels bring trafficking victims to the border and rely on a network of gangs to facilitate trafficking within the United States. Through research I’ve uncovered the inner working of stash houses that exist on both the U.S. and Mexican side of the border.
These stash houses are used to exploit trafficking victims. Stash houses work in a series of three. The first house is a processing center. The second house is where the actual exploitation occurs. The third house is where the final transportation arrangements are made for the victim.
Cartels utilize cloud technology. They capture finances — how much the child has to work, to pay off — as well as demographic information on these child trafficking victims. There’s a digital trail being that is completely being overlooked, that is being used by the cartels.
[39:45]
Cartels target migrant children for the purpose of exploiting them into the United States through the unaccompanied children program. Children in migrant groups are sold to traffickers when it’s discovered that their families don’t have the extra money to cover the unexpected expenses by the coyotes who are embedded within the migrant groups en route to the southwest border.
While conducting research in a migrant shelter at the border, I learned of a mother who refused to let her child out of her arms. The mother explained to staff that she was robbed of her belongings en route to the southwest border. In addition to all of her property being stolen from her, so were the two other children that she started the voyage with.
Post-placement protections for migrant children are completely inadequate. In one instance, law enforcement checked on the wellbeing of 25 UACs, but could only locate two. Some sponsors reported the children never arrived.
[40:41]
Through my research I’ve discovered that ORR uses NGO contractors to manage influx facilities. There’s a need for more ORR accountability within these facilities to ensure the safety of these migrant children.
NGOs use staffing agencies to provide personnel. There has been a history of inadequately vetted staff having access to children without background checks or security clearances. While ORR has an on-site monitor, they receive filtered information from the NGO managing the influx facility. This filtered information involves what’s occurring at the facility, and it prevents ORR from having visibility on incidents and whether ORR policies are being followed.
The crisis involving exploitation through the UC program continues, and there is an urgent need for reform in managing the UC program to mitigate further exploitation and trafficking of children.
Thank you for this opportunity, and I welcome your questions.
[41:42]
GRASSLEY: We will have questions in the order of me, Cassidy, Johnson and Cornyn. If other people come, it will be after Cornyn gets done.
Ms. Rodas, you reported to the inspector general at the Department of Justice, and HHS, that children were placed by the Office of Refugee Resettlement and its contractor Cherokee Federal in the hands of a sponsor connected with the violent MS-13 gang.
Based on records you provided, the placement was done after you warned HHS.
I’ve obtained a statement from another employee to substantiate your shocking allegations.
Now, I think you spoke to this in your opening statement, but let me ask this question. If you want to add anything that you didn’t have time to add, you can.
Could you describe in more detail the placement of children with sponsors connected to a violent gang? And the retaliation you endured after you reported this placement to the inspector general?
Would you like to speak more on that subject, or have you said all you can on that point?
[43:05]
RODAS: I’d be happy to tell you more, senator, and I would like to, again, thank you for your commitment to whistleblowers. Thank you.
So, early in the morning of September 3, 2021, I sent out an urgent “do not release” advisory. It was for two 13-year-old children who were being sponsored by an MS-13 affiliated sponsor in Ohio.
The advisory went out to HHQ staff, it went out to the Pomona staff, it went out Cherokee Federal contract staff, [the Office on Trafficking in Persons] OTIP, HHS, OIG and Homeland Security Investigations.
Sadly, despite my urgent “do not release” advisory, one of the children was released to this gang-affiliated sponsor.
[43:48]
Now, my husband is from El Salvador. And I understand the horrific things that the violent gang, MS-13, does to children. So, it was quite a shock to realize that the U.S. government knowingly — knowingly! — was sending a child into the hands of gangs.
So I made the decision to take a different pathway. And that’s when I reached out directly to the inspector general of the U.S. Department of Justice, the Honorable Michael Horowitz.
Over the next few days I made four protected disclosures, two to the Department Justice OIG and two to the HHS OIG.
This resulted in, I’m sad to say, in lightning speed retaliation.
[44:28]
After just ten days — ten days after my protected disclosure — I was taken off the MS-13 case. The following day I received an email from a masked headquarters, HHS headquarters — it was a UAC migration email [address] — that we used for submitting trafficking cases. I suddenly received an email from them!
And they outed me to the entire site. That I had been in contact with the OIG. So, they copied HHS staff, all my on-site colleagues, I mean, they outed me as a whistleblower. And just five days after that, on September 21, 2021, as cover for action, they falsely accused me of wrongdoing.
I was instructed to clean out my work area of all my personal belongings, in front of my peers. I was escorted off the site by the federal field specialist, and security.
I was told I was under investigation.
When we reached the guard station, for badging out, my badge was taken by security.
[45:33]
And as I mentioned, for my personal safety, my home agency offered to send armed agents to escort me from California back to Washington DC. I can assure you, it was a harrowing journey that no whistleblower should have to go through.
No whistleblower. So again, Senator Grassley, I thank you for the question, and I thank you for your support of whistleblowers.
[45:55]
GRASSLEY: One follow-up. When you were at your HHS facility in California, what training, if any, did HHS require on how to identify and prevent trafficking?
RODAS: Well, sadly, the Office of Refugee Resettlement is not a law enforcement organization or an investigative agency. That’s something we really need people to understand. HHS is not investigative. They have a decade, though, of evidence showing they’re incapable of identifying trafficking concerns, documenting those concerns, and then reporting.
And, further, their refusal to share information with law enforcement is going to continue to result in children being put with dangerous sponsors who abuse and exploit them. There’s not sufficient training for them to be able to tackle this mission to properly report it so that children are protected.
[46:55]
WHITE: Right. And to further answer the question, sir, what training, if any, did HHS require on how to identify and prevent trafficking? None.
As a matter of fact, there weren’t any types of training. Not document fraud training. Not trafficking training. Not sponsor vetting training. Nothing.
Which is why I took it upon myself to create trainings to equip the case managers that were well-meaning, but without training on how to do their job.
There was no practical application or operational hands-on training. Period.
That’s why there was complete and utter chaos in the case management division.
And that’s why children ended up in the hands of traffickers. Amplified by the fact that many case managers had no idea how to safely process these children — because they had just answered an ad on Indeed, or attended a hiring event at the hotel next door, only to be brought on the next day with no training. And in some cases without cleared background checks.
[47:50]
One could argue that this many pervasive failures could only be the product of system by design. HHS knows there is zero accountability once the children leave their facility, which is why speed is consistently prevailing over safety.
So much so that teams — the strike teams I talked about earlier — were established to move the children out faster.
Many times a case manager would arrive at work on Monday morning, only to find out that one of their children had been ripped away, and shipped out, before they could conclude their findings.
[48:22]
GRASSLEY: Rodas and White, the unaccompanied children’s portal houses the Office of Refugee Resettlement information about migrant children and contains valuable data that can be used to find missing and exploited kids. Did you encounter any barriers to sharing information from the unaccompanied children portal with law enforcement when you identified kids you believed were being trafficked?
[48:56]
WHITE: There was zero training on how to identify document fraud and prevent trafficking, both of which were prevalent in the [Department of Health and Human Services] HHS [Office of Refugee Resettlement] ORR unaccompanied children’s [UAC] program, and has been for over 15 years.
When I alerted HHS on the first case of trafficking, I found out that the only way to share data with law enforcement was to painfully piecemeal UAC portal screenshots together and time-consumingly put together narratives and PowerPoints that explained each case’s findings, so that law enforcement could begin to understand the evidence they were looking at.
[49:36]
This method was painfully slow, completely archaic, woefully ineffective and inefficient. A special agent investigating a case even asked me if there was an ally on the HHS side that would be willing to speak to him, because HHS normally does not release any information to law enforcement. I found this absolutely appalling.
If HHS truly had nothing to hide, and truly cared about the safety of these children, they would willingly allow the inspector general and law enforcement to have full access to the portal, eliminating time-consuming bureaucratic red tape processes for child-protecting, life-saving data.
[50:14]
But that was not the case, and that’s not the case now.
HHS does not want law enforcement to have portal access, because that would expose their criminal and intentional negligence. And that’s not good. That’s not good for a taxpayer funded multi-billion dollar program which claims to care for children.
Please make no mistake, the inspector general and law enforcement are at the complete mercy of the information giver — HHS ORR — who will not give them information or access to the portal to investigate. Why? Because this would cripple their program. If law enforcement and the American people could really see the extent of their criminal behavior.
[50:53]
RODAS:
As a follow-on, it cannot be emphasized enough that HHS is not law enforcement, they are not an investigative agency. But they do have an oversight agency, HHS [Office of the Inspector General] OIG.
And I can tell you, it was the shock of my life, sitting on the Pomona Fairplex, finally getting authorization to share cases, and I get on the phone with the special agent, and I’m like, here is the A-number.
And the agent said, A-number? We don’t have access to the portal.
I’m like, what do you mean you don’t have access to the portal? How do you have any oversight of the program?
And they told me, they said, Tara, we’re going to have to open a Kiteworks sharing session, and you’re going to have to send me stuff.
I was stunned. I’m still stunned. When I tell people that no one has access to the UAC portal, and therefore cannot investigate these cases, people still do not believe it. But make no mistake about it, they have been stonewalling congressional oversight, and they are stonewalling the oversight of their own agency.
HHS OIG has no ability to directly access and look at the case files of children who we suspected of being trafficked. […]
[52:20]
GRASSLEY: […] Cornyn would be next, and then Ernst, and then Britt. […]
[52:46]
CASSIDY: Dr. Sadulski, when I read your testimony, you’re saying that the cartels are on both sides of the border? And they’re tracking kids that come across the border, and presumably they’re tracking them once they are released to somebody in the states?
SADULSKI: Thank you for your question, senator. So, the cartels are bringing the children to the border in a very organized fashion using cloud technology to maintain track of these children. Once they get to the border, typically, they’re told who to ask for to be their sponsor. The process works through, they go through ORR. The child says, they identify the person they wish to be their sponsor. ORR is sending that child to an unvetted sponsor that is in connection with the cartels in Mexico. It’s the gangs —
[53:33]
CASSIDY: If the child identifies, I would like Maria Lopez, who lives in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, to be my sponsor, there is no vetting? It’s just presumed that if the child asks for Maria, in Baton Rouge, that that’s where the child shall go?
SADULSKI: There is no consistent vetting that is doing anything meaningful to protect these children, no sir.
[53:42]
CASSIDY: Is there a random sample of, where, okay, we’ve got a bunch of people asking, but we’re going to at least check ten percent of them to make sure that it all vets out.
I guess I’m asking, if you know this, presumably ORR knows this. Do we have a sense of why they’re not acting upon this?
SADULSKI: I honestly don’t. I know that ORR is completely incompetent in the management of these children, and that is reflected in the recent OIG report. I know that these children are being facilitated by the cartels to the border, and then ultimately turned over to the transnational criminal organizations, the gangs —
[54:28]
CASSIDY: Now, you mentioned there is a digital trail. So the FBI could, theoretically, say, ok, there’s a digital trail in the cloud.
SADULSKI: Absolutely.
CASSIDY: And we know this person has come across the border, she’s asked for Maria Lopez, and she has now been assigned to Maria Lopez. Turns out Maria is not Maria, Maria is somebody else, and it’s a gang member. But there’s a digital trail here?
SADULSKI: Correct.
[54:52]
CASSIDY: Of what nature? Tara mentioned Facebook, social media. I guess what I’m asking, what are the options for us, actually, for the federal government, to intervene to kind of interrupt some of this, is what I’m after.
SADULSKI: To examine the cloud data that’s transferred between the cartels — the transnational organizations in Mexico, and the gangs that are in part facilitating the trafficking of these children in the United States. It’s the demographic information of the child, how much the child needs to work to pay off, and also transportation issues, or paths, related to them being brought into the United States, is what’s being used —
[55:28]
CASSIDY: I see, so they’re emailing people in Louisiana, DC, you name it, wherever they end up, to ask, to tell them, ok, this is how much, long they have to be in service.
SADULSKI: Right.
[55:40]
CASSIDY: Now, Ms. Rodas, you mentioned following people on social media. Is that commonly done? When someone is placed, there’s some sort of social media surveillance of the sponsor? […]
RODAS: I wish they were following the children on social media. No, they’re not. As you may know, Secretary Becerra has said many times, so has the director of ORR: Once children leave the custody of HHS, no one is responsible for the children. They’re not following up.
It was a, just a fluke that the case manager saw that they had changed their profile picture on WhatsApp. So, —
CASSIDY: I got it.
RODAS: It’s shocking to believe that case files between the case manager and the sponsor are shared on WhatsApp. The guy just changed his profile photo before he forgot to delete the case manager from the file, and she saw it.
[56:40]
CASSIDY: Got it. Now, Secretary Harris, now, it’s my understanding that when ORR sets up a facility, it is supposed to be in accordance with state law.
HARRIS: That is correct.
CASSIDY: And it has to be licensed by the state, and meet the requirements of the state.
HARRIS. That is correct. However, we know, in the state of Florida, that they were not cooperating with our government, with the department —
[57:13]
CASSIDY: Now can I ask you, if Secretary Becerra were here — I wish he was — would he allege that Florida made it tougher for these facilities, relative to a group home that would be for troubled children coming off of addiction? Or were there requirements for the ORR homes the kind of standard requirements the state of Florida has for facilities for minors?
HARRIS: They would be the standard requirements for any home serving vulnerable youth.
[57:40]
CASSIDY: And those requirements are for their hygiene, for their safety, for adequate medical care — these are just things that we would expect routinely. Correct?
HARRIS: Yes.
CASSIDY: And, when you say — I’m just kind of dumbfounded that the federal government won’t comply, because they’re supposed to. Are you able to then go in and audit the facility? To say, listen, you haven’t really been transparent with how you’re doing this, but we have the obligation to make sure the kids are being held safely, securely, et cetera. Do you have the ability to go into the facility and audit?
[58:19]
HARRIS: You are absolutely right, in terms of where the breakdown starts. Once we start the process of trying to go in and ask questions, that is where we get stonewalled from the facility, under the direction of ORR.
It would be difficult to get critical incident reports, it would be difficult to get access to some of the records. And moreover, we had a child die in one of the facilities in Florida, and we wanted to go in to conduct interviews with the kids. And we could not conduct those interviews until we got releases from ORR.
So, that is atypical for a facility licensed by the state of Florida.
[59:02]
CASSIDY: One more question on this. If you showed up at the door and just wanted to make sure that you’re not overcrowded, for example. That you meet the fire code. That, all the things that you know that have to be done for any public building. That the doors open out, they don’t open in, all that sort of thing.
Would the fire marshall be allowed in? Would the office of public health be allowed in to inspect? Or have you tried this?
[59:31]
HARRIS: They absolutely should, under normal licensing and coding regulations. Again, however, our experience in Florida was when those types of asks were made, depending on the situation, they would have to get clearance from ORR.
[59:48]
CASSIDY: Okay. Ms. Rodas, let me just say that, in [the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions] HELP Committee we’ve learned that ORR continues to give contracts to contractors who do not have a child welfare background. Okay? And, Ms. White, I think you probably relate to that.
And so I sent a letter to one such contractor who has ties to a government defense contractor who is accused of abusing unaccompanied children in 2018.
Now, Ms. White. Can you give me a — do you have any conjecture of why they would continue to contract with contractors who have shown that they are not training people, and that have even been associated with abuse?
[1:00:41]
WHITE: Yes, that’s a great question. Because also Cherokee Federal, this was the first time they were in charge of child welfare.
Again, I was not given the contract. I asked for it repeatedly. It is a taxpayer funded document, we should all be allowed to view that, but that was under close hold and not given to me.
But, what I can say, is that the Cherokee Federal contract, at the site that we were at in particular, that was a no-bid contract. So that was given, there’s a justification that’s done, and that was given automatically to Cherokee Federal. So they never actually had to compete for that contract.
[1:04:11]
CASSIDY: Now, a no-bid contract, are there set-aside for Native Americans? I mean, Cherokee suggests that it’s a Native American tribe?
WHITE: Right, it does. It does. But at the dollar threshold that it was at, because this was a $700 million contract, I find it very unlikely that it would have been a set-aside, although it could have been. But it was a sole source award.
[1:01:38]
CASSIDY: You’re in procurement. So, if it is sole source, I’m unclear — is this politically motivated? Or, I mean, is it somebody’s brother-in-law? You know what I’m saying, metaphorically. How did this —
WHITE: Right. Well, —
CASSIDY: Seven hundred million, sole source, for somebody who’s previously been responsible for other abuses? I’m just scratching my head, here.
[1:02:00]
WHITE: You’re correct, it’s shocking. And then, I know that Cherokee Federal was also awarded the Afghan refugee contract following their performance at the Pomona Fairplex — which was dismal. However, we understand that they received, on their [Contractor Performance Assessment Reporting System] CPARS rating, they received top marks on their CPARS, and that’s how they were able to secure this.
But again, the contracting rep that was on site didn’t allow me access to the contract. Again, I could have helped them with identifying those failures and help them to create a plan to remedy those failures. But that was never afforded to me.
[1:02:33]
So, what they do is kind of keep close lock and hold, the contracting officer representatives that are on the site, to ensure that they’re given those ratings, so that they can secure other contracts.
CASSIDY: Senator Johnson?
[1:02:48]
JOHNSON: Thank you, Senator Cassidy.
Dr. Sadulski […], in my opening statement I talked about a hearing I held in 2019 where we had testimony that they sold an infant child, an infant boy, to a 51-year-old man to comprise a family unit, to exploit our immigration law. For eighty-four dollars.
As chairman of the committee, I’ve been down to Central America, I’ve heard the depredations of, again, the reason I call them some of the most evil people on the planet. You’ve heard what ISIS has done — these people do things even worse.
I noticed, in your testimony, you left out one sentence. Because, it’s hard to even describe the depredations. Right? But I think it’s important that we do describe it, so people understand the evil that is being perpetrated by this open border policy.
[1:03:49]
And the, since I’m, I’m going to read it: “Unaccompanied minors are especially vulnerable when en route to the border. In a specific case I researched, a trafficker harvested a 12-year-old’s eye for $15,000 in Mexico.”
SADULSKI: That’s correct, sir.
JOHNSON: My guess, as a criminologist, you’ve heard a lot worse than that.
SADULSKI: Yes sir. Yes, senator.
[1:04:16]
JOHNSON: Do you want to share any of those things? I’m not trying to be morbid, here. But I think it’s extremely important the people realize, this isn’t just — we’re not just inconveniencing these people. This is human depredation.
SADULSKI: Right. The former sex traffickers that I’ve interviewed in prison have described what they call farms. Farms exist both on the U.S. and Mexico side of the border. And it ultimately is where somebody who is no longer of value to the cartel, or are suspected of being an informant, or suspected of other violations of the cartel, are taken.
And those are, basically, when see on the news about X amount of bodies buried, or in acid, those are what the Mexican cartels refer to as farms.
[1:04:55]
JOHNSON: Ms. Rodas, you spoke of your knowledge of MS-13. Also, as chairman of Homeland Security, we held hearings on these gangs. What they do, just for initiation, is horrific.
I’ll read you. This is out of — “to become a homeboy of Chicos, an initiate must commit at least one murder of a rival gang member. Once Chicos are voted in by members of a clique, leaders must slowly count to 13 while gang members beat the prospective member.”
That’s just an initiation rite. They’ve got to murder a rival member, and then, it goes worse from that. What they actually do to girls, the mutilation, the rapes, the murders.
So, you’re aware then. And you’re a whistleblower. And what you saw. You saw our government agencies — by the way, this isn’t willful ignorance. This is malevolent. To allow children — knowing full well that children have been sold. That people’s eyes and organs are being harvested. That boys and girls are going to be raped, and mutilated, and in the end, buried in a farm.
They’re released to MS-13. Can you describe a little bit, in terms of what you know about MS-13?
[1:06:20]
RODAS: Well sadly, as I said, my husband is from El Salvador. And 15 years ago El Salvador was one of the most violent places on the planet. We’re talking the entire globe. Run by gangs, like MS-13 and 18th Street gang, known as transnational criminal organizations.
But a DHS whistleblower revealed in 2021 that members of transnational criminal organizations like MS-13 and 18th Street gang began — for the very first time — this new and emerging threat of sponsoring children through the UAC program.
Understand, in the history of the UAC program, it had never happened before. Never happened. Why is it that we now have these violent gangs?
And the particular case that got me walked off the site, it just so happened this female operator worked in a hotel. How convenient.
So, understand, these are known sex traffickers, labor traffickers, drug traffickers — and have no regard for human life whatsoever.
And if anybody saw the recent interview of Tucker [Carlson] and [Nayib] Bukele, Bukele, the president of El Salvador, said that MS-13 is involved in satanic ritual abuse and sacrificing children.
[1:07:51]
JOHNSON: And people within our federal agencies knowingly, willingly, malevolently are allowing children — just to get them out the door. Because they’re overwhelmed, with this open border policy, they’re willingly letting them go into the open arms of MS-13 and maybe even worse gangs.
RODAS: Yes, senator. And I wish I could tell you different.
JOHNSON: What is your current status? Have you returned to work? Have they made you whole, in terms of retaliation? Are you still being retaliated over?
RODAS: Well, very fortunately, I was a detailee to HHS. So, at the time that they put me under investigation and walked me off the site, I think they believed my home agency would fire me.
I think maybe they didn’t calculate that at the Office of Inspector General we protect whistleblowers. And especially whistleblowers who report that children are going to gang members on taxpayer dollars. So, my agency protected me.
[1:08:46]
JOHNSON: Ok. So, in your statement, you said that for your personal safety, your personal safety was threatened. By who? By the gangs? By the agency? Why did you feel threatened? Why did you need escorts?
RODAS: Well, what’s interesting is, at the moment, I was just scared, just, that they had done this to me. I thought I was going to lose my job. I didn’t think I was in physical danger. They thought I was in physical danger.
JOHNSON: But by who, though? By the gangs?
RODAS: What’s interesting is that they feared that the retaliation would be from the agency, not from the gangs.
[1:09:23]
JOHNSON: That’s quite telling.
In my letter, reacting to your interview by Project Veritas in November of 2022, we wrote — it’s not only my letter, four other colleagues — the most reprehensible claim by Ms. Rodas occurred when she raised concerns to command center executives — these are HHS agency employees — about placing another unaccompanied child in a questionable home.
According to Ms. Rodas, someone told her, quote, I think you need to understand, we only get sued if we keep kids in care too long. We don’t get sued by traffickers. Are you clear? We don’t get sued by traffickers.
So, my question is, this malevolence. Who? How many?
I’m not expecting you to name names, right now. Have you turned those names over to the inspector general? Do, have you reported on the supervisors —
RODAS: Yes.
JOHNSON: — these executives, who, so, these names are known?
[1:10:27]
RODAS: Yes, senator, they are known.
JOHNSON: Any accountability, has there been any discipline enacted, or taken out, against these individuals?
RODAS: So, to my knowledge, senator — we’re not made aware of ongoing investigations.
JOHNSON: Of course not.
RODAS: I’m sure you’ve heard that from this side of the table before.
JOHNSON: Have you seen anybody walked out?
RODAS: No, sir.
JOHNSON: Their belongings in a cardboard box, and shown the door?
RODAS: No, senator, I haven’t seen anyone suspended or debarred.
[1:11:00]
JOHNSON: Ms. White, what about you?
WHITE: No, I have not. Not one person has, to my knowledge, have they held them accountable.
JOHNSON: Have you provided names of individuals who willing — knowingly, looked the other way, knowing exactly what was happening to these children?
WHITE: Yes. Yes.
JOHNSON: You’ve provided names?
WHITE: I’ve provided names. I was not walked off the site. Because I didn’t have an MS-13 case. But I had multiple cases that I reported on. One in particular where we sent 329 children to an address in Houston, Texas. Two buildings. Two garden apartment buildings.
JOHNSON: That’s a very generous foster family, isn’t it?
WHITE: Very kind of them.
JOHNSON: To take on 329 kids?
WHITE: Very kind of them. Yeah. So, no, to my knowledge, no one has been reprimanded for what they’ve done, no.
[1:11:46]
JOHNSON: Have you experienced any retaliation?
WHITE: I have not. They let me leave the site, gave me a thank you letter, actually, acknowledging that I had found trafficking on the site, thanked me for putting together programs to train the case managers, ah, so they let me leave on good terms. But again, I didn’t have an MS-13 case.
[1:12:03]
JOHNSON: So, I have to believe that most people working in the agencies are humane. Are concerned about the children.
I’d like to believe that. But, my final question really is, what percentage of management, of people that work in these agencies, are fully aware of this? Understand exactly what is happening?
And either are directing employees and detailees to look the other way — I mean literally directing it — so they’re completely responsible and culpable?
Versus, just acquiescing and going, I can’t be as brave as these two whistleblowers, I’m just going to keep my head down and keep my job. Can you give us some sort of feel for the people who are actually culpable, versus what percent know it but aren’t willing to come forward?
[1:12:52]
WHITE: Well, the HHS staff knows they won’t be held accountable, as you know. You’ve sent letters to them, they don’t even answer them. So, they know nothing is going to happen to them. Absolutely nothing.
However, there are good people working on these sites, and working at HHS — but they’re terrified to come forward.
Tara Rodas and I have a certain level of protection because we work at different agencies, and we were just detailees for a temporary amount of time. However, the HHS workers, they are terrified. They have seen examples made of people that come forward. So, any HHS whistleblower gets fired. They are terminated.
[1:13:27]
JOHNSON: So, this is a department that is rotten from the top.
WHITE: Yes. To the core.
RODAS: Yes.
JOHNSON: And the question is, how far down does it go, before we get to the people who just want to keep their heads down, and are terrified of the snake head at the top? Senator Cornyn.
[1:13:42]
CORNYN: Just to summarize, out of the 10 million migrants who have come across the southern border in the last three and a half years, about half a million of those are what we are calling unaccompanied minors. UACs, unaccompanied children.
And just to, Ms. Rodas, Ms. White, if you can confirm for me. The Border Patrol, once these individuals show up — and I appreciate, Dr. Sadulski, your pointing out that they’re not really alone. Because they’re accompanied to the border by the cartels, the coyotes, the human smugglers.
And once they show up at the border, the coyotes, these criminal organizations, know what the process is by which these children will be dealt with once they are turned over to Border Patrol.
[1:14:35]
So, the Border Patrol has 72 hours, I think, in which to turn the children over to the Office of Refugee [Resettlement], which is part of the Department of Health and Human Services. Is that right, Ms. Rodas, Ms. White?
RODAS: Yes, sir.
CORNYN: And so what we’re talking about, Dr. Sadulski, you said there’s no uniform process to vet the sponsors with whom these individual children will be placed. And we’ve heard a little bit about that.
I want to ask another, sort of another twist on that. But, the fact is, Ms. Rodas, as you said, that the Biden administration’s position is, once these children are placed with sponsors, they are under no obligation to follow up on the welfare or wellbeing of these children. Is that correct?
[1:15:28]
RODAS: That is correct. And that’s a stunning and shocking statement: that no one is responsible for a child once they are released to a criminal sponsor, here in the United States.
CORNYN: I think I’ve heard Secretary Becerra say that, well, it’s up to the state’s child protective services to deal with those children. But the fact of the matter is, the administration can’t tell you whether these children are being trafficked, whether they’re going to school, whether their health care is being attended to. Whether they’re being recruited into gangs. Or, forced into involuntary servitude. Correct?
RODAS: That is correct, senator.
[1:16:09]
CORNYN: And as shocking as that may sound, it appears to be they just don’t care. Is that your conclusion as well?
RODAS: When you’re talking about seven billion dollars a year in contracts, it goes beyond — right? — do they care or not. Sadly, there are some people who care more about maintaining their contracts. Maintaining their appearance, of looking good.
Which is why HHS has lost control of their program. That’s the bottom line. Because they won’t submit to transparency, accountability, and oversight.
[1:16:57]
CORNYN: Well, what would happen at the border, as these children are being turned over by Border Patrol to the Office of Refugee [Resettlement], if appropriate vetting was taking place?
RODAS: Well, HHS is not a law enforcement organization. Hence, they would no longer have the program.
CORNYN: Does the Office of Refugee [Resettlement] have an obligation to do appropriate vetting of the sponsors?
RODAS: That is, right now, their responsibility. Which they cannot do, and they don’t have people trained to do that.
CORNYN: Well, that’s part of my point. And they can’t handle the volume —
RODAS: Correct.
CORNYN: — of people. Correct?
RODAS: Correct.
[1:17:38]
CORNYN: And so, rather than allow the unaccompanied children to stack up, and to create embarrassing pictures of children in cages, and things of that nature, at Border Patrol and other facilities, they simply release them to unvetted sponsors. Correct?
RODAS: That is correct. Speed over safety.
WHITE: And senator, I would add, that apart from DNA testing — that they used to do — there is no way to properly vet a sponsor. Ok, the sponsors that they’re going to, if they have criminal history, you’re typically going to find that in the country of origin. You’re not going to find that — no matter what kind of background check you do — here in the United States.
[1:18:19]
CORNYN: Right. So, Dr. Sadulski, the Border Patrol talks about pull factors, in other words, what are the factors that incentivize, both, parents to send their children, in the custody of cartels, to the border?
And, part of that, as they have educated me, is that the knowledge that these children will be placed into the interior of the United States, with sponsors.
And of course, the cartels get paid by the head, so they have a financial incentive.
But, is that an incentive for more and more people, more and more children, to make this dangerous and harrowing journey to the border, and then to be placed with unvetted sponsors in the interior?
[1:19:09]
SADULSKI: Right. Senator, a lot of these children are kidnapped. As well as, parents are selling their children. And it’s occurring in poor villages and communities in Guatemala, in the Northern Triangle countries. So, it’s kind of a, it’s a series of all three.
They have some that are hoping to send their child for a better life. There’s other times that they are coerced. In the case of juvenile organ harvesting, what happens is the traffickers will go into migrant camps, they’ll go into these encampments, and they’ll compel the parents to let the child go with the trafficker, because they can get them to the United States quicker, with the intention of harvesting organs.
[1:19:50]
CORNYN: My observation is that a significant number of these unaccompanied children are in fact 17-year-old, or older, males, who, for all practical purposes look like a grown man.
But, because of the opportunity to exploit this vulnerability, with the way that unaccompanied children are processed and placed with sponsors, they are then released into the interior.
[1:20:12]
I want to ask you specifically, Dr. Sadulski, about a couple of cases. Last August, an 11-year-old girl in Pasadena, Texas, was sexually assaulted, strangled, and wrapped in a trash bag and stuffed in a laundry basket under the bed in her family’s apartment.
Juan Carlos Garcia Rodriguez, who is an illegal immigrant from Guatemala, was charged with the girl’s murder. He entered the United States as a UAC in January 2023, and was placed with a family in Louisiana.
In a second case, a 16-year-old Salvadoran immigrant, an MS-13 member — we’ve heard a lot about — sexually assaulted and murdered Kayla Hamilton, a 20-year-old woman living in Aberdeen, Maryland.
When DHS and HHS, Dr. Salduski, conduct background checks on UACs, what sources and databases are they consulting, and are there practices that they could or should follow, in your opinion, that would prevent the release of violent criminals like Juan Carlos Garcia Rodriguez, and Kayla Hamilton’s murderer?
[1:21:27]
SALDUSKI: Right. Thank you for that question, senator.
Part of the problem is the lack of access to reliable data. If someone has a criminal history in El Salvador, it’s going to be very unlikely that the U.S. government is going to be able to accurately track that criminal history. Interpol plays a role, but there are certainly still challenges.
In terms of ORR, they will generally release information on a child — and I just want to offer, sir, this kind of reflects the problem. The problem is a lack of communication between ORR and federal law enforcement.
[1:21:58]
If HSI or ICE will make a formal request, for a specific child, that information will generally be released. But that’s part of the breakdown. The issue is a lack of desire and funding to conduct meaningful and consistent services to check on the wellbeing of these children after they are placed with a sponsor.
And that, ultimately, is what’s leading to the trafficking.
And this was confirmed in an HHS OIG report that discovered ORR failed to conduct timely safety and wellbeing checks in up to 22 percent of the cases. And I can tell you, from my experience in law enforcement, that followup [phone] calls simply don’t represent a meaningful welfare check.
[1:22:38]
CORNYN: So, we have a problem where the ultimate sponsors are not adequately vetted for the protection of these children. And, in fact, the children, sometimes essentially grown adult person, but they happen to be under 18 or at least claim to be under 18, they are not properly vetted for criminal history on a routine basis.
SALDUSKI: That is correct.
CORNYN: Thank you.
[1:23:05]
CASSIDY: I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record statements from the Meat Institute and the National Chicken Counsel that discuss the impact of the surge in unaccompanied children on their industry, and the steps they’re taking to prevent exploitation.
I grant myself this consent.
VOICE: No objection.
CASSIDY: Senator Britt.
[1:23:30]
BRITT: Thank you. I want to tell you how much I appreciate the leadership of the three of you on this issue, and putting this together, today. Certainly appreciate getting to hear from all of the witnesses, too. Thank you for bringing your expertise and your stories and being willing to tell them. So we can save more children and keep this from happening.
I have been concerned about this issue throughout my first several months as a United States senator. I’ve been here 18, 19 months now.
And one of my very first hearings was with Secretary Becerra. And I remember talking extensively to him and asking questions. Trying to expose the flaws, the enormous inadequacies of the UAC program.
And in particular, I spent most of my time expressing concern about the fact that in March 2021, the Office of Refugee Resettlement, ORR — the office we’ve been talking about today — issued field guidance that actually waived background check requirements for adult household members and alternate adult caregivers identified in a sponsor care plan.
I couldn’t wrap my head around that. As a mom, to think about what is happening to these children. To think about the fact that there were no background checks.
[1:24:55]
And, obviously, these were category two sponsors, so, meaning, certain relatives of a child other than a parent.
I wasn’t satisfied with the answers that he gave me. And obviously, the more and more we learned, the more and more I am affirmed in that feeling. And I think the more the world sees that the operational realities of this program are disgusting and despicable.
And before I get to my question, I also think it’s important to note that at the end of the day, many of the problems we are seeing with the UAC program are yet another consequence of the immigration policies of this administration that have encouraged extremely high levels of migrants to come here in the first place.
[1:25:38]
I mean, the moment that President Biden took office, in the first 100 days, he issued 94 executive orders. He immediately said we’re going to halt deportations, we’re going to stop construction on the border wall, and we’re going to give amnesty to millions.
[1:25:50]
That encourages more and more people to come here. More and more people to take that risk, and more and more children to be put in these vulnerable situations.
The higher the levels of the illegal immigration that we have seen — obviously, they are going to put strains on every program, every policy, every procedure that was designed to deal with individuals, including these children at our southern border.
So, today’s roundtable is a great reminder that Congress needs to act.
We must close these loopholes. We cannot continue to kick the can down the road. And when we take back control, I expect us to do something about this.
[1:26:33]
And so, what I want to hear from you today is the things that we should be thinking about, what should we be doing, I want to learn, I want us to know, so that we can be ready to go. We can tell your story to the world, and actually do something about it.
Because I know many members sitting up here have pieces of legislation that would address some of these issues.
But it’s also worth noting that this hasn’t always been just Republicans talking about this. If you go back to 2014, President Obama actually sent a letter to Congressional leadership, in June of 2014, which is over a decade ago, asking Congress to amend laws to ensure that children from noncontiguous countries are treated the same as those from Mexico. Even the editorial board of the Washington Post, at that point in time, did the same thing, in a 2014 op-ed.
So, this shouldn’t be controversial, this should be bipartisan, and we should do something for these children.
I want to start, Ms. Rodas and Ms. White. It is clear, even in your testimony and in your answers today, that we have created a culture — this administration has created a culture, where they prioritize speed over safety. When it comes […] to the placement of children.
[1:27:51]
Just as I talked about my questions with Secretary Becerra, it seems to me that we have a UAC program that just, not isn’t just working well, but it isn’t fit for its purpose. And I think the reason the program isn’t fit for its purpose has a lot to do with HHS departmental policy and management failures.
[1:28:12]
If you look at Section 2.5.1 of ORR’s [Policy] Guide for UAC’s program, it lays out the background check requirements for potential sponsors of unaccompanied children.
And so, when you look at all of these things […] based on your experience, do you agree with me that HHS should revisit some of these policies, and require FBI fingerprinting and criminal history background checks?
You mentioned, obviously, even if we were to run a criminal background check here, it’s talking about what is happening in the country of origin, and obviously being able to bring those things together.
But for all UAC sponsors, and adult household members, of the place that they will be ultimately placed, do you think that that’s important, and — for me personally, I think that that’s just common sense. But I’d love to get your thoughts on that, having been on the ground and seen it firsthand.
[1:29:08]
WHITE: Yeah. So what I can comment first is, obviously, the policies that you talked about worked. Right? And that’s indicative. Because less than three percent of the children we saw on the site were Mexican. The vast majority of the children, almost 70 percent, were Guatemalan. Right?
So, that’s indicative, there, that policy does work.
And as far as vetting requirements and background checks, to be quite honest, they don’t work. Again, because we’re not looking at the records from in country. We’re looking at if they’ve committed a crime here in the U.S.
[1:29:41]
Very typically these sponsors have just recently, themselves, come here. Because, again, we’re talking about undocumented persons here in the country that are serving as these sponsors.
Really, the only way to combat this — and this is really just a foundational, very base level thing that we can do — is to require DNA testing. If this is a family reunification program, then at a minimum you have to have those Rapid DNA tests that can very quickly prove that there’s some sort of familial relationship.
BRITT: And Senator Marsha Blackburn has been all over that. In all of the right ways. So, absolutely. Do you have anything to add, Mrs. Rodas?
[1:30:20]
RODAS: Sure. Thank you senator.
So, it’s interesting, the program is touted as a family reunification program. But that’s not what’s happening anymore. Less than 40 percent of the children are going to their parents. [Family reunification is] not what’s happening. The system is being used.
And what’s stunning to me, is that we have a program called “humanitarian parole,” which is to be the sponsor of an adult, and the requirements for that are much more stringent than the requirements to sponsor a child. So that doesn’t really make sense.
So, we have higher requirements of the sponsor of an adult, through humanitarian parole, than we do for the sponsorship of a child. And that doesn’t really make any sense. At a baseline, it should be at least the requirements of humanitarian parole.
But I would question: Why would the United States government have any policy that separates children from their families in their home country? I don’t think we should have this program in this manner.
[1:31:29]
BRITT: Absolutely. In a well-known February 2023 New York Times piece about the labor exploitation of UACs, there was a video clip of the secretary comparing HHS’s handling and discharge of unaccompanied kids to sponsors as a, quote, assembly line.
[1:31:48]
He appeared to express frustration that children weren’t being released fast enough, and stated that, quote, this is not the way you do an assembly line.
Mrs. White, you testified that over 300 children had gone to just two homes and locations? Mrs. Rodas, you said, obviously, speed over safety, this goes directly to this. What are some of the ways that you all think Congress could best address this, and I’ll open this up to anyone that wants to answer.
[1:32:26]
WHITE: So I think we’ve talked about this a couple times. This needs to go into the hands of [a] law enforcement agency, not Health and Human Services. They’ve proved over and over again, for a decade, that they are not able, they’re not capable to run this kind of program and deliver children safely.
And, again, they’re not even going to family members most of the time. Those category ones that are supposedly parents, are in many cases not the parents. Because they’re fraudulent documents.
Again, you’re getting a birth certificate for a child, that has no photo on it, you don’t know if it’s actually their birth certificate. Most of these are fresh documents, as if they had just been printed the day before.
And secondly, the parent, the supposed parent, that’s providing the identification, you never see them face to face. Again, this is a mechanism that used WhatsApp to receive documents. Which, in some cases, were copies of copies.
[1:33:22]
BRITT: And, Dr. Salduski, I know that you’ve done a number of, just, obviously, research in this field, and in my remaining, literal second: Do you have anything in particular that you want to add, as it relates to aspects of the program and the placement, and the process, that you think Congress needs to address? I know that you’ve been, obviously, zeroed in on bad actors and transnational criminal organizations. And I would just love to get your take on this as well.
[1:33:50]
SALDUSKI: Sure. And I certainly agree with Ms. White, it really needs to be a law enforcement issue.
So, the cartels are providing a lot of false documentation. That is something that is going to be completely overlooked by ORR.
So the answer, I believe, part of the answer, is to really have that law enforcement involvement, versus there being a separation between ORR and law enforcement.
ORR is hesitant to share information with law enforcement because they’re in fear that either the child, or the sponsor themselves, are going to get deported. But that’s not the case.
And so that, in part, is what’s part of our broken system.
BRITT: Thank you all, so much. It is despicable we’re allowing this to happen in the United States of America. Honestly. Thank you.
JOHNSON: Senator Lankford.
[1:34:28]
LANKFORD: Mr. Johnson, thanks for pulling all this together. Thank you. There’s a lot to be able to come out in this.
For all of you, thank you, for your boldness to be able to come out here and speak truth. The risks that you’ve taken, to be a whistleblower in this process.
I’m going to drill down into things you’ve already mentioned before, and to be able to track this a little bit farther on this.
[1:34:49]
Ms. White, you talked about there was a location where 329 children were all sent to the same location. What city was that in?
WHITE: Houston, Texas.
[1:35:00]
LANKFORD: So, you became aware that you have 329 children that were sent to the same address. Who else knew about that?
WHITE: The entire executive leadership at Health and Human Services knew about it. As well as the Office of Inspector General and HSI. Homeland Security Investigative Division.
[1:35:17]
LANKFORD: So, were additional children being sent there even after it was identified that we had 100 children there, 200 children there, 300 children there?
WHITE: Yes, senator. I think that, before I left the site, that number may have been up to 500-plus.
LANKFORD: So, no real evaluation, from there. Other than, keep sending them. Because that gets them out of here.
WHITE: Yeah, no, the PowerPoint that I had put together, to demonstrate what was happening, they said was speculative. And I think they told Tara that she had cultural bias, something like that. But they did not take it seriously.
[1:35:47]
LANKFORD: So, you’ve got about 10-14 days in ORR custody before they’ve got to be out, and with some sponsor. At this point, what you’re saying, it’s pretty obvious, we need more bed space here, so just send them anywhere besides here.
WHITE: That’s right. Yes sir.
LANKFORD: So are these political appointees that were aware of these, or were these career employees at HHS, that were aware of it?
WHITE: These are career employees who were aware, but also, the prime contractor which is Cherokee Federal.
[1:36:13]
LANKFORD: You had mentioned before that HHS employees are terrified to be able to be whistleblowers on this.
WHITE: Yes.
LANKFORD: Why?
WHITE: Because they know, absolutely, they’ll be fired. They’re scared to lose their livelihood. They’re pretty well paid, you know, bureaucrats are pretty well paid, so they’re fearful of losing their position.
[1:36:30]
LANKFORD: So at this point, your statement is, they’re terrified to lose their job, because they know senior leadership at HHS will fire them for speaking the truth — that people are being trafficked into locations.
WHITE: Absolutely. Without a doubt.
LANKFORD: Have you been able to share who the names are of people that seem to be putting this kind of pressure HHS employees, to be able to say, don’t speak, just send?
WHITE: Absolutely.
[1:36:59]
LANKFORD: And at this point have you seen any consequence for any of those individuals?
WHITE: I have not.
[1:37:05]
LANKFORD: Ms. Harris, let me ask you a question from the state perspective. I’ve talked to Xavier Becerra, leader of HHS. We’ve talked specifically about the sponsorship issue in a public hearing, under oath, and tried to press him on people that are not legally present, being sponsors, in the country.
He also assured me that — we’re letting the states know all about these locations and sponsors.
Is Florida aware of every child that’s being delivered into Florida by HHS?
[1:37:42]
HARRIS: That is one hundred percent a false statement by the secretary. They are not transparent. After repeated requests for transparency from our agency, from our governor, to ensure that those kids, that the welfare of those kids can be followed up on.
Florida went the extra mile of demanding, essentially, that there be an agreement between our state and the federal government. To continue to have these facilities operate in our state, taking in these kids. And one of the requirements was to ensure that we could, that there would be welfare checks on these kids, that there would be follow-up.
I could not bring a child into my home, to foster or to adopt, without there being supervised visitation, home studies, background checks.
Extensive work being done to make sure it’s a good match.
At a bare minimum, we should require ORR to follow basic standards and requirements in ensuring that these individuals are who they say they are, and that these kids are safe when they’re placed in these homes.
[1:38:41]
LANKFORD: I would assume you would. As would my state of Oklahoma, would do the exact same thing as well. To be able to make sure they’re being put into a safe home, on this.
I’ve asked repetitively, do children need to be placed in the home of people that are not legally present in the country? And repetitively HHS has said, we’re looking for family members. We’re looking for sponsors.
[1:39:01]
As I have visited the border, multiple times, UACs that are coming across, 15- 16-year-old males, very typically, that are coming across, have a piece of paper with them, saying this the address, this is the location where I want to go, this is my quote-unquote sponsor.
[1:39:16]
Of the quote-unquote sponsors, how many of those are family members? How many of those are not a relative at all — as far as we can tell? Or do we know, at this point?
RODAS: Reporter Hannah Dreier, of the New York Times, in one of her data analysis, showed less than forty percent of the children were actually going to their parents.
So, that defies the purpose of the program, as a family reunification, if you’re sending children to non-family members.
And I think it’s very important to note, that under this new rule change, they’ve actually created a position called a unification specialist. Instead of a reunification specialist.
But the purpose of this program is supposed to be family reunification. But they know that’s not what they’re doing now. They’re unifying children with random people here in the United States from a piece of paper that the child has turned in to border patrol. That defies belief.
[1:40:21]
LANKFORD: So these individuals do not have a criminal background check from their home country. And I would say I’ve spoken to some of the previous leadership from Guatemala, and they are furious that we’re keeping their children.
They’re furious about it!
Their statement is, if an American child showed up in Guatemala, and we kept them, what would you do?
RODAS: Mm hm.
[1:40:38]
LANKFORD: We would demand our child back. And he’s saying, why, in Guatemala, you’re keeping our children, and we don’t get a say about it. You hand them off to somebody that is a stranger.
Rather than allowing us to be able to take our own children back.
I’ve got no answer for them on that. Because the Biden administration is refusing to be able to reunite children back with their families in Guatemala.
Basically saying, I’ll hand them off to a trafficker, where they’ll be safer, apparently, in their perspective. I just can’t process or comprehend why they would possibly do that. But they’re doing it over and over again.
[1:41:08]
They’re not doing criminal background checks, on individuals, of any consequence. They’re not checking their home country. They don’t have to be legally present in the country. And within days of dropping them off, if they have no idea where they are?
And no one answers the phone, for the location, if they do check in on them, no one actually follows up. Am I tracking this correctly? On what’s actually happening, on the ground, day to day?
RODAS: Yes, senator.
[1:41:32]
HARRIS: Yes, senator. And I’d go so far, I know the stat that Ms. Rodas just quoted.
You know, our grand jury identified that in two-thirds of cases these kids are going to non-parents. We actually, at the Department, visited two of the homes that are operating in our state. And we interviewed 49 of the youth.
Less than ten percent of them were going to be going to their parent as a sponsor. That’s frightening.
LANKFORD: Less than ten percent?
HARRIS: Less than ten percent.
[1:42:05]
SADULSKI: Senator, if I may add, in reference to that piece of paper that you had mentioned. I really want to emphasize, a lot of times, those pieces of paper, those names and phone numbers and addresses of sponsors the child is supposed to ask for is being delivered to them — being handed to the children — by cartel members.
So that they are processed into a trafficking situation once they get released from ORR, to that sponsor.
LANKFORD: Right. But ORR is not evaluating that.
SALDUSKI: Not in a meaningful way.
[1:42:30]
LANKFORD: Right. What we have said, repetitively, is the federal government is the last mile delivery for human trafficking. That they’re being trafficked through Mexico, and the federal government, and the federal taxpayer, then picks up the last mile delivery in human trafficking.
And is putting these young girls into sex slavery, putting people into labor camps, or into who knows what, in criminal activity. Because right now Xavier Becerra is facilitating the delivery for the end. For these children. Am I wrong on that?
RODAS: No, Senator. Sadly, you are correct.
[1:43:06]
LANKFORD: What is the training, currently, for vetting of sponsors, for HHS? What does their training entail?
WHITE: There is no training, Senator, for vetting sponsors.
LANKFORD: So it’s just, identifying who the sponsor is?
WHITE: Get the documents from WhatsApp. That’s the training. And again, you never see the sponsor face-to-face. So there’s really no way to vet. Not even for category ones, that we talked about. Ms. Rodas had mentioned that about forty percent of the children, or less, are going to category one, which is a parent?
LANKFORD: Right.
WHITE: That’s not done through DNA testing. That’s done through presenting birth certificates. Again, we don’t know if that birth certificate actually belongs to that child. And we don’t know if that ID document and birth certificate belong to the sponsor, either. Because you never see their face. They just put it on a table, take a picture, and send it to you.
LANKFORD: Ms. Rodas, anything you want to add to that?
[1:44:00]
RODAS: At the beginning of your statement, you had asked: Is HHS informing the states about the children you’re sending?
And I would like to call your attention to my state of Virginia, where the Attorney General, Jason Miyares, on just April seventeenth of this year, had sent a second letter to the secretary wanting to know: Where are the missing children in Virginia?
[1:44:24]
So, in a small town of Culpeper, there are many missing children. Guatemalan children. And he’s been trying to find them. He’s been trying to get the information: Can you please just tell me, for my state, who are these sponsors?
To no response. This is unacceptable, that the federal government has access to information that could save children, today, and they’re not giving it to the states.
So, this is very, this is a critical issue, and I thank you so much for your concern for these children. HHS is not going to save them, it’s going to be you-all. And so I thank you.
[1:45:02]
LANKFORD: Well right now, we’re fighting our own government. To be able to get basic information to be able to protect and value children.
It’s just shouldn’t — it’s bizarre to even say that sentence out loud.
That we’re having to be able to fight this administration. To say, stop facilitating human trafficking in our own country.
But for some reason, they don’t want the photo of a crowd on the southern border. And it’s easier just to distribute children nationwide, into who knows what, so that they don’t have a photo, a bad photo op, at the border.
So, better politically for them, worse for these kids, by far.
Y’all, thank you for coming forward, for your testimony today. Senator Johnson, thank you.
[1:45:50]
JOHNSON: I’ve got a few more questions, Senator Grassley has a few that he wants me to ask.
First of all, Ms. Rodas, Ms. White said one of your supervisors accused you of having cultural bias? Is that true?
RODAS: So, I was very much liked on the site, until I reported the MS-13 case. Once I reported the MS-13 case, the day I was taken off the case, yes, they accused me. They said, perhaps you have cultural bias against Salvadoran people.
Which is why I was calling out MS-13.
I said, I know we don’t know each other well, but my husband is from El Salvador. So I can assure, I’m not biased against Salvadorans.
JOHNSON: Maybe you’re just a selective racist? They played the race card on you.
[Laughs]
RODAS: They did.
[1:46:40]
JOHNSON: By the way, I’m not challenging you, but you said that these kids are turned over to random people?
No. They’re turned over to a highly organized transnational criminal organization. Sex traffickers. Human traffickers. This is highly organized, right?
I knew what you meant. They’re not turned over to good people. They’re turned over to the sex and human trafficking business. The multi-billion dollar business. It’s sick.
[1:47:13]
I just want to ask a question, in general, because it’s literally the sixty-four thousand dollar question. I think, we’re asking this all the time: Why are they doing this?
Why has this administration, why have Democrats — you’ll notice, by the way, even though they’re invited, there’s not one Democrat senator sitting here, listening to your stories, asking questions.
You know that similar letter that I sent to Secretary Becerra, after your interview with Project Veritas, I sent that to Senator Peters — chairman of [the Senate] Homeland Security [Committee] now.
We have not held one hearing on the border.
We’ve had Secretary Mayorkas in a couple of times, and we’ve been able to talk about the border. But no hearing on the border. Certainly no hearing on this.
Senator Sanders, chairman of the HELP Committee — no hearing on this.
You know, God bless Senator Grassley for doggedly pursuing this, and organizing this roundtable. But I’ll just ask all — you don’t have to answer.
Do you have an explanation?
Why is the Democrat party, why are Democrats in Congress, this administration, why are they pursuing this wide-open border?
It’s a clear and present danger to this nation. Two million […] gotaways?
The human, the sex trafficking, that we’re talking about here, the human trafficking, the involuntary servitude.
They know they’re facilitating it! It’s not a secret!
[1:48:29]
Do you have any explanation, in your own mind? I’m happy to have you conjecture.
HARRIS: It defies logic and is inhumane. It really does.
JOHNSON: But there is, there has to be a reason. Right? Anybody just want to state your assumption?
WHITE: I could speculate, as to — many reasons — as to why they would allow an open border. However —
JOHNSON: I’m allowing you to.
[1:48:57]
WHITE: However, I believe that bureaucrats don’t want their program shut down.
And if they have massive crowds at the border, and they’re not able to get hold of it, just as Senator Lankford was saying, that’s a bad photo op.
But that’s also a reason to dig in further, into actually what’s going on, and why they’re so out of control. So I really think it’s just a response, it’s damage control.
JOHNSON: But do you think bureaucrats, agencies, are driving this to protect their jobs? I would disagree. Because Border Patrol is overwhelmed by this. They’re looking for any port in a storm. They don’t like this.
WHITE: I don’t want to speculate.
[1:49:35]
JOHNSON: They don’t like seeing what they see on the border.
These young women raped. The taunting tree, the rape trees, the panty trees, they don’t like seeing that.
They don’t like seeing the dead bodies in the Rio Grande.
So, again, why is Biden doing this? Why are senators, Democrat senators, voting against building the fence? You know, implementing policies that could stop incentivizing people to, we’re asking them to flood our country.
RODAS: Like my wonderful colleague, Deborah, I don’t like to speculate. But what I can say, it surely sounds virtuous. To say we’re reuniting children with families. That sounds wonderful.
But that’s not what’s happening. So they’re playing a little bit of smoke and mirrors. They’re saying this thing on one side — we’re so humanitarian! Look at us, we’re reuniting children with their families.
[1:50:34]
But the reality is the horror that you described, is that children, now, are the prey of criminal networks.
JOHNSON: So, how do they get away with it? [silence] The answer is the media.
One — we haven’t really explored. Ms. White, you talked about Cherokee Federal. That’s one of the NGOs. Is that the primary one that has been contracted, subcontracted, to do this work?
WHITE: That was the prime contractor at the facility that I was at.
JOHNSON: At the facility. Do we have others, as well?
WHITE: Yes. There’s —
JOHNSON: Are they in cahoots with the human traffickers? Are they part and parcel, the same organization? Funded by the American taxpayer? Is that how bad this is — is the American taxpayer literally funding the human trafficking operation?
[1:51:26]
HARRIS: I’d say, follow the money. I mean, if you read the sixth and seventh presentments of the Florida Grand Jury, you’d be — it reads like a horror story, in terms of the money going to these NGOs.
JOHNSON: Which is, you’re prescient, this is exactly question number two from Senator Grassley: What are the main findings of the Florida Grand Jury on unaccompanied children? We’ll let you answer that, Secretary Harris.
[1:51:50]
HARRIS: Where do I start? Everything that the panelists have said. I think some of the most startling things were the fact that the case managers, the staff, being discouraged from asking questions, being discouraged from sharing with law enforcement any concerns.
And then, again, I think the sixth and seventh really shed light. The Grand Jury had witness testimony from executives in these NGOs, shared with them the horrors, and they, some of them committed to asking more questions, making changes. And six months later they were invited back, and zero changes happened.
Zero.
And they basically said, as long as the money is there, we’re going to do whatever ORR says.
[1:52:49]
JOHNSON: So the NGOs, in the Grand Jury, basically punted to the agency heads. And the agencies heads, again, are more interested in speed than safety.
HARRIS: Absolutely.
JOHNSON: That gets you right back to — they wouldn’t have to worry about speed if we actually tried to secure the border. And we stopped incentivizing this mass flow of illegal immigrants.
Senator Grassley’s first question to Secretary Harris: You conducted state inspections of unaccompanied children contract facilities operating in your state. As you’re aware, HHS’s Office of Refugee Resettlement oversight of those contracts is so bad that Florida empaneled a Grand Jury to investigate. That’s setting up his other question there.
[1:53:30]
My, I think the main question we all have — and you heard Senator Grassley ask you the same thing, Ms. White: Who, and how many, are ultimately responsible for this?
How many people are putting the case officers in a state of fear? Basically threatening their job, if they actually do their job?
Who are these people? Where are they located? Is it strictly in the agencies? The NGOs are, they’re just, following the money, they’re using the cover of the agencies and these executives in the agencies — we’re just doing what they told us to do?
You know, we’re innocent, we’re following orders. It’s the federal government directing us, we’re following orders.
Ok. I’m suspicious of that, I’d be interested to see whether, now, gonna do more investigations, these NGOs. We actually have evidence, now, of an NGO providing a piece of paper to migrants before they get here, and one of the things in there, they say, when you get to the U.S., vote for Joe Biden.
Which, by the way, I think that’s the answer to the sixty-four thousand dollar question. Okay, I’ll speculate.
[1:54:35]
Let me just give all, each one of you — again, thank you for your appearance here.
Thank you for whistleblowing. Please encourage more people in the federal government to come forward. We can’t just have a couple, with courage, there is a lot of power in numbers. Even greater credibility.
But listen, you folks are completely credible. I don’t think anybody is denying or questioning your testimony.
I’ll give each one of you, and we’ll start with Dr. Sadulski […] and we’ll go from my right to your left. Just have a final comment here, before I close this roundtable out?
[1:55:12]
SADULSKI: I really appreciate this opportunity. It’s people like you, it’s people like those that have been here, today, that care, and are making a difference.
And it’s difficult to answer your question, as to the why. I think we could speculate, and I think, what we think, is true, in terms of following the money.
But it comes down to corruption. And — it comes down to corruption.
From what I’ve seen, and talking to cartel members, they’ve explained to me that people who wouldn’t even be involved in trafficking people, right now are trafficking people. Because it’s so easy to get them into the United States.
So I just want to say, thank you, for this opportunity.
And, I really appreciate it.
[1:55:50]
JOHNSON: So, you would agree with me, basically. That the only reason this is happening is because we’re facilitating it with this open border policy.
If we had a secure, border, they wouldn’t have the opportunity. Listen, there are still, depredations occur. There would still be human trafficking, sex trafficking. But it wouldn’t be happening at American taxpayer expense. It wouldn’t be happening on our soil, to the extent that it is.
Is that, basically, true?
SADULSKI: From what the cartel members, that are incarcerated, have explained to me, it’s viewed as an open border. And it has increased the number of people that are ultimately getting involved in this.
It’s difficult to say, about the border being completely open. When I’m at the border, I see Border Patrol everywhere.
[1:56:30]
The problem is, is, migrants are able to come in and claim asylum, and they know that. So, aside from the ORR children issue, one of our problems is that, everyone knows, unless they’re coming from Mexico and have a special exemption, that they can come to the United States, claim asylum, they’re often given a court date four to seven years in the future, and released.
And that has become common knowledge in Latin America.
And that is part of why we’re seeing such an influx.
JOHNSON: Senator Lankford pointed this out. Literally the U.S. government, and NGO’s we’re paying, are facilitating the final miles of the human trafficking and sex trafficking chain.
They’re acting like the post office with Amazon. They’re providing the last mile for that package delivery. That’s what we’re doing.
And by the way, we know we’ve been doing this — for years now. And it has just gotten worse.
Secretary Harris, do you have any final thoughts?
[1:57:23]
HARRIS: First I echo what Dr. Sadulski said. I want to thank you all for your attention, time and commitment to this issue. It is a very important one.
I have three words: Secure the border. Right? I think that, I think holding these officials accountable for doing their jobs, as well as making sure that they’re just doing basic steps of vetting, and being transparent with states, and everyone, I think is where the focus needs to be.
[1:58:00]
I, obviously, think that we have created an environment where individuals in these countries know it’s so easy, that they’re taking advantage.
That’s why I say, we have to secure our border. If we create anti-illegal immigration policies and practices, they will not come. Parents will not put their kids through these treacherous routes and hazardous conditions, if they know they’re going to be turned around.
JOHNSON: And if it were a legal system, it could be done safely. There’s nothing humane about an open border, illegal immigration policy. There’s nothing humane about it.
HARRIS: Absolutely.
JOHNSON: Grotesquely inhumane.
Ms. Rodas.
[1:58:50]
RODAS: Thank you, Senator. I just would like to thank Senator Grassley and the whole committee for shining a light on what we now know is government sponsored, taxpayer funded child trafficking.
And I hope that this hearing is going to help shine a light, from this sacred place, to the rest of the United States, and the world, that we will not stand for children being trafficked.
So I thank you for your efforts to protect these vulnerable children. It’s an honor to be here.
JOHNSON: Well, again, thank you for your whistleblowing. It’s courageous people like you that step forward. Under possible threat. Okay. That allow the American public to actually see what’s happening. So God bless you. Thank you.
Ms. White.
[1:59:36]
WHITE: I want to echo those sentiments. Thank you so much for hearing about this, and for caring about the plight of the children. These are human beings. These are little children. This is not cargo that we’re moving around the country. These are human beings, with souls.
And so, I just want to say that, you know, we’ve created our own perfect storm. By allowing HHS to be accountable to HHS. So, clearly, that doesn’t work.
And so I would just say — because we can all agree it’s not a political issue with regard to human decency — we need to take care of these children.
So, I would just ask that you go find them, save them, and change policies. Policy works, and we can secure the border. We’ve done it before, we can do it again. Thank you so much for your time.
[2:00:16]
JOHNSON: Again, thank you for your whistleblowing. Again, we need more. I think we can do a pretty good job protecting, ensuring that we follow our laws protecting whistleblowers. That’s crucial. But we need more people like Ms. White and Ms. Rodas — and our other witnesses too, coming forward and describing this.
People need to understand the reality, they need to understand the truth.
Thank you, everybody, that concludes this roundtable.