House Freedom Caucus FreedomWorks Congressional hearing on the border crisis

1 February 2022

Chair: Rep. Scott Perry

Video available: fb.watch/kUJaADhMCy

(1:00)

PERRY: Thematically, tomorrow is groundhog’s day in Pennsylvania where the number one prognosticator, Punxsutawney Phil, will tell not only Pennsylvania but the rest of America whether there will be six more weeks of winter, or not. And I say that because, there was a movie made about it, Groundhog Day, where the main character kept waking up to the same thing every day, wouldn’t change his attitude, wouldn’t change his behavior….

While that was a comedy, unfortunately for the American people every single day they wake up to a tragedy happening not only at the border, but across the country in their communities. Across every single state.

Until the president and this administration changes their attitude and their behavior the American people are going to continue to be put upon by this circumstance.

We’re here today because while the left, president BIDEN and the Democrats in general, refuse to acknowledge this circumstance, this issue, in a case where we have two million people crossing our border this year alone — another record — we’re going to do something about it. Even if they’re not going to do something about it. We’re going to hold a hearing on it, we’re going to talk about it, and we’re going to hear from witnesses and experts on the issue to let the American people know what the left and the mainstream media refuse to talk about.

I’m going to defer to the former Chairman ANDY BIGGS, and then introduce our witnesses and guests and then get to the panel for discussion.

(2:45)

BIGGS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks to each of our witnesses who are here today. I also extend our gratitude to FreedomWorks, who is hosting us in this facility, all those who join us through live stream and other media, we are grateful to have you here. This is a critical issue.

President BIDEN and Secretary MAYORKAS have created the worst border crisis in our nation’s history. Before he even took office President Biden was sending signals to aliens that if he were elected, if they came to America, he would let them stay.

It should not come as a surprise that almost immediately after he took office the number of illegal aliens skyrocketed. Why? Because BIDEN sent that message, he wasn’t going to secure our border.

Who doesn’t remember the pictures of groups of aliens showing up wearing BIDEN t-shirts. I always wondered, who gave them those t-shirts, anyway?

Homeland Secretary MAYORKAS summarized President BIDEN’s border policies when he said, “we’re not saying don’t come” — just don’t come yet.

Beginning on his first day in office, President BIDEN began systematically undoing all the successful programs President TRUMP had put in place. He stopped construction of the border fence, tried to end the remain in Mexico program, tried to halt deportations, limited the application of Title 42, terminated the asylum cooperation agreements with the northern triangle states, and he limited ICE’s ability to enforce immigration law in the interior of the United States. There are still 1.2 million people with removal orders in the U.S. today.

(4:15)

That’s a sampling of what he’s done. Tomorrow marks one year since Secretary MAYORKAS was sworn in as secretary of Homeland Security, and that year has been an unmitigated disaster. Since he took office nearly 2 million illegal aliens have been encountered by Border Patrol at our southern border, and it appears those numbers continue to increase. Under his leadership our border is less secure, our nation is less safe.

That’s why I introduced articles of impeachment against Secretary MAYORKAS last August. He’s unfit to serve as secretary of homeland security. Under his leadership DHS has reinstituted “catch and release” policies leading to tens of thousands of illegal aliens being released into the U.S. each month.

The law requires DHS to detain illegal aliens, but he is ignoring the law.

(5:00)

Just last week we saw footage of busses dropping off groups of single adult men at the San Antonio airport. We’ve repeatedly asked that Congressional committees hold hearings to investigate the extent of the border crisis and the policies that created that crisis, but we’re sitting here off-campus because Democrat chairs have no interest in this. Neither does the Biden administration. Nor will they even give us access to rooms and facilities to hold these types of hearings.

Yesterday I finally received a response from Secretary MAYORKAS for a letter I sent back in May — May! — of 2021. The information in the response is infuriating. According to DHS from March 21, 2021 through January 10, 2022, CBP released a total of 164,584 aliens from custody. More than 94,000 aliens were released with a notice to report, meaning they were released and told to report to ICE later, and more than 70,000 aliens were paroled into the United States.

These numbers are shocking, yet I fear they do not tell the entire story.

(6:05)

I again thank Chairman PERRY, and thank the House Freedom Caucus and its members who work assiduously on this and every issue that concerns the American people. We are America’s voice when leadership on the other side will not hear their voice. I look forward to a productive hearing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

(6:28)

PERRY: I thank the gentleman from Arizona. I’m going to move to recognize our witnesses now and also thank everybody that’s viewing, the press for being here and of course FreedomWorks for hosting since SPEAKER PELOSI and the Democrats refused to host.

(6:40)

We are joined by a great and esteemed panel of experts today. I’ll start with Mr. BRANDON JUDD. He is a widely known and highly regarded expert on illegal immigration and border security. He has served as a Border Patrol agent since September 29, 1997, and President of the National Border Patrol Council since March of 2013. His dual roles include protecting America’s borders while ensuring that the best interests of all rank and file Border Patrol agents across the country are met. Thank you sir.

(7:15)

JOSEPH EDLOW, the former acting Director of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, Mr. Edlow is the founder of the Edlow Group, an immigration consulting firm in the Washington Metro area. Mr. Edlow has a lengthy record of service and immigration-related government roles since 2008, and most recently Mr. Edlow was the US-CIS Deputy Director for Policy and in that role served as Acting Director of the agency from February 2020 through January 2021. Thank you sir.

(7:46)

RUSSELL JOHNSON is on the video behind you there. He’s a cattle rancher, fourth generation, in southern New Mexico. His family and he ranch along the U.S-Mexico border. He attended New Mexico State University and received a bachelor’s degree in animal science in 2010. From 2011 till 2016 he served in the US Border Patrol as a Border Patrol agent stationed in El Paso, Texas. He left the Border Patrol in 2016 to return to his family’s ranch. And we thank you for being with us today sir.

(8:20)

Finally, TODD BENSMAN, former manager counterterrorism intelligence, Texas Department of Public Safety, Intelligence and Counterrorism Division. Todd Bensman currently serves as the Texas-based senior national security fellow for the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) for which he writes, speaks, and grants media interviews about the nexus between immigration and national security. He frequently reports from the southern border and Mexico, and throughout Central America.

(8:52)

Gentlemen, thank you all for your attendance today, I’m going to get right into questions. Each of us will have five minutes for questions and answers. I stand corrected. Mr. Judd if you would offer us your opening statement.

(9:10)

[Inaudible - microphone is muted]

(9:49)

JUDD: Esteemed representatives. I live this nightmare every single day. You have my written statement. I’m going to deviate from that simply because of some things that just happened over the past week. We just had some visits by Secretary MAYORKAS and Chief ORTIZ of the Border Patrol. I normally will attend those meetings. I specifically and purposely did not attend because it is normally left up to me, as the representative elected by the agents, to voice their opinions. I knew that uniformed law enforcement agents on government time were going to be willing to stand up and challenge what is currently taking place by this administration.

(10:29)

They were willing to challenge a cabinet official. That is like challenging the president himself. That is how bad this situation has gotten. We go home every single day, defeated. We feel that our time is wasted. We put the uniform on out of a great desire to serve the American public. Our only goal is to protect the citizens of this great nation. We are not allowed to do that at this time.

For that reason we are broken. The Border Patrol is broken. Our agents are not broken, please, bear with me on that. For all of his failures. Economically, on the world stage, with the Covid, for all of his failures, he has succeeded in one thing. He has broken the Border Patrol. The agency at this time is broken. We cannot fulfill the mission we are supposed to fulfill simply because of policy.

(11:30)

I get consulted on a regular basis — do we need more resources? Do we need more technology? Do we need more manpower? I will tell you, no, we do not. We do not have to pass the buck on to the American public. We do not need more taxpayer funds. We need policy. This issue is solved through policy and policy alone. We learned that under President TRUMP. Yet this administration has done away with all of the successes that President TRUMP was able to accomplish.

(12:05)

PERRY: I thank the gentlemen. We turn now to Mr. EDLOW for your five minute opening statement.

(12:10)

EDLOW: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I don’t know how to follow that. Chairman Perry and distinguished members of the House Freedom Caucus, it is an absolute honor and a privilege to be here today, and I truly, truly commend the House Freedom Caucus for the courage of holding today’s hearing and bringing much needed attention to this crucial, crucial issue on immigration and border security and the crisis we are seeing exploding right now in this country under President Biden’s tenure.

As a senior official in the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) during President Trump’s administration, I am truly disheartened to see our successfully implemented policies scrapped merely because of anti-Trump sentiment. Make no mistake, we are presently witnessing the complete erosion of the integrity of our immigration and border security laws, and with it the notion that we remain a country of laws. 

(13:05)

Since his first days in office, President Biden has waged a war on immigration enforcement. Disastrous executive action aimed at halting deportation, reinstituting Obama-era prosecutorial discretion, attempts to end the effects of migrant protection protocols, and instituting large scale catch and release along the border have taken their toll.

(13:26)

Additionally, the constant promise of amnesty by administration officials and Congressional Democrats have further tipped the scales and made it clear that the potential reward is certainly well worth the risk of attempting the dangerous journey to the United States. Legislative efforts seeking to absolve those that flagrantly disregard our immigration laws — and in many cases our criminal laws — continue to flourish and enjoy support among immigration and open border advocates in the administration and on Capitol Hill. These efforts, combined with weakened border security and enforcement measures, will result in the total collapse of our immigration system.

(14:07)

On any given day, it is bad policy to consider amnesty measures. But it is absolutely preposterous and dangerous when paired with the immigration related infrastructure collapse at the southwest border that we are presently witnessing.

In fiscal year 2021, CBP recorded a staggering and unprecedented number of encouters at the border, approximately 1.96, close to two, million. And in just the first few months of fiscal year 2022, CPB has already recorded well over half a million more encounters. None of this accounts for the hundreds of thousands of “gotaways” who were able to elude Border Patrol and other CPB agents. 

(14:45)

The record number of border apprehensions and entrants was met not with increased enforcement in the interior of the United States, but with a return to the prosecutorial discretion policies of President Obama. This was embodied in Secretary Mayorkas’ memorandum entitled, “Guidelines for the Enforcement of Civil Immigration Law,” outlining the so-called “appropriate” instances where DHS is authorized to take action against aliens either unlawfully present, or lawfully present but removable.

Specifically, DHS may target three main buckets for enforcement action: threats to national security, threats to public safety, and threats to border security.

(15:25)

While in theory, this would seem a proper use of the supposed limited resources, but in reality, the numerous carve-outs, loose definitions, and required factors for consideration continually make it nearly impossible to move forward with most enforcement actions.

(15:40)

While I’d like to sit here and tell you exactly what the ICE enforcement action numbers should have looked like, I can’t. Because ICE has failed to provide any updated statistics for the past year, and arrest and removal numbers for fiscal year 2021 or 2022 to date have just been unknown. So it’s difficult to know the full extent of how these policies have really affected the interior enforcement activities that have gone on or not gone on in this country.

(16:10)

We can glean some information based on some FOIA responses collected by the Center for Immigration Studies that appear to show a dramatic decline in civil enforcement with some snapshots. But, to be clear, it’s uncertain what those numbers really are.

(16:30)

(Microphone static)

It’s against this backdrop that we continue to hear of new efforts by the administration … statutory language on issues such as parole and detention, the administration has seemingly found ways to limit its usage of Title 42, to limit usage of the migrant protection protocols, and to avoid statutory detention where possible.

Most recently reports of flights taking adults newly entering the country to places all over the country raises significant concerns.

The time is now for strong Congressional oversight: for the administration to appear and explain their actions, explain the statutory authority for those actions, and explain how those actions are in the best interests of the United States.

I thank you again for inviting me to speak today and look forward to your questions.

(17:15)

PERRY: I thank the gentleman. Turn now to Mr. JOHNSON for your opening statement, sir.

JOHNSON: Thank you. I’m a fourth generation cattle rancher in southern New Mexico. I ranch alongside my wife, my children, and my parents. Due to Biden administration border policies I fear that our tradition, legacy and livelihood will not survive if our government continues down this path.

I’d like to start by giving a little background on my family’s history. My grandfather moved to this area of southern New Mexico in 1918. He started ranching here, and in the ‘50s began farming as well. Both operations are on the international boundary with Mexico.

To say we are familiar with the border is an understatement. From my grandfather on, we have all been born and raised here. Sadly each generation has had to contend with an unsecure border. In 2011 I left home and joined the United States Border Patrol. I was stationed in El Paso, Texas, and served for five years before returning to the family ranch. 

(18:18)

Growing up on the border, I saw things most people don’t. Illegal immigrants hiding from Border Patrol, smugglers leading law enforcement on car chases, and CBP air assets flying low searching for people in the desert. My time in the Border Patrol opened my eyes to an even darker side of the border. I saw firsthand the ruthlessness of smugglers. While detailed to air and marine operations, I participated in multiple search and rescues of illegal immigrants lost in the desert because they couldn’t keep up with their group. Often these were women and children left behind in the desert with little to no water, and no idea where they were at. 

My point in sharing this with you is that having grown up on the border, as well as serving as U.S. Border Patrol agent, has given me a unique perspective on this whole issue. I have seen the issues Border Patrol face, as well as stakeholders along the U.S.-Mexico border. Our issues include livestock theft, property damage, and home invasions to name a few. People crossing our land leave behind trash and destroy fences. They cannot carry enough water to get to their destination, and because of this they have destroyed water sources for our livestock to refill their water jugs. This makes for costly repairs, not to mention it depletes the cattle’s water stores, which could be catastrophic if not caught in time.

(19:40)

We have also had people who were lost start fires in our pastures to signal for help, which in turn destroyed feed that we needed for our cattle. My wife and I have two young children. Imagine having to tell your kids they cannot go outside and play because Border Patrol is looking for people around your house. Because of this we do not let them play outside alone, on their own, in the backyard.

I have had illegal immigrants walk up to the house asking for water and to use my phone to call their smuggler. I can’t risk my kids encountering these people on their own. 

(20:13)

During the beginning of President Trump’s administration we saw very few people crossing. In 2019 the asylum-seeker surge stretched Border Patrol manpower, and we saw a significant uptick in traffic. In our area, however, it was not asylum seekers crossing, but those who wanted to avoid apprehension.

In April of 2020, border wall construction started on our ranch. This new border wall system was going to replace a little over eight miles of ineffective “Normandy-style” vehicle barrier and a five-strand barbed wire fence that we maintained at our own expense. This new border wall was finally going to bring peace and security to our area of the border like we had never seen before. 

That was all taken away from us, and every American, when president Biden took office.

(21:00)

When construction stopped, our ranch was left with a three-quarter mile gap, incomplete gates, and unfinished wall on our ranch. All the materials to complete the wall are staged along the border — rusting away, and in some cases being stolen. This is taxpayer money literally sitting on my family’s ranch, and it’s being wasted.

President Biden’s border policies and gaps left in the wall have funneled an exponential number of illegal immigrants into our area. I have encountered these people on my ranch and at my home. They wear full-body camouflage, carpet shoes, and use a variety of other tactics to avoid apprehension. This increase in traffic has caused a strain on Border Patrol manpower, and left my family fearful for our safety.

(21:45)

In our area, there is no Border Patrol presence on the border. All available agents are further north chasing groups. I have seen surges of illegal activity over the years. What makes this surge different from others is that our government is doing absolutely nothing to address it. Our border is wide open, the problem is staring this administration square in the eyes, and yet nothing is being done.

(22:10)

I’m a son, a husband, and a father of two small children. I should be able to go to work every day and know that my family is safe on U.S. soil. For the past year, that has not been the case. Thank you.

PERRY: Thank you sir for your testimony. We turn now to recognize Mr. Bensman for five minutes. 

(22:30)

BENSMAN: Chairman Perry, members of the caucus, thank you for inviting me here to discuss the most historic mass migration crisis that has ever stricken the United States. What has happened to the southern border is not only history-making in scope but portends lasting, long-term second, third, and fourth-order implications for American citizens. Therefore, the great mass migration that began on or about Inauguration Day, 2021, profoundly qualifies for a broader public discussion about how to address it. That takes comprehension as to what it is and how it works.

During its first year and now into its second, I have interviewed hundreds of the immigrants, most recently on an eight-day fact-finding journey to the Guatemala-Mexico border city of Tapachula. From my vantage point, I can confidently report that there is but one root cause that they — the immigrating foreign nationals — most often cite for coming now: It is that President Joe Biden opened the American southern border wide to them. They see, over their cell phone social media, that many hundreds of thousands who have gone before secured quick releases and resettlement in America — and decide to also gamble huge smuggling fee investments that criminal smuggling gangs will get them in to stay, too.

With such an enticing, motivating return on smuggling investment, no thinking person should wonder why this global migration hit the all-time national record of 1.97 million Border Patrol apprehensions in a single year, with probably 500,000 more “got-aways”. And that’s an undercount.

But the caucus should also know that non-profit advocacy groups and, more notably, the United Nations, appear to be working side-by-side with the criminal smuggling organizations on the same mission.

United Nations agencies such as the International Office of Migration (IOM) and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) are providing hard cash, food, shelter, and legal services — psychological services — all along the migrant trails. This materially facilitates journeys that everyone involved very well knows, despite any protestations to the contrary, always lead to an illegal American border crossing.

In whatever small or large way, the United Nations and the nonprofits it funnels money to can reasonably be said to contribute to the current mass migration crisis.

I found my first clue on a Rio Grande riverbank on the Mexican side: a discarded UNHCR-stamped booklet advising in great detail how migrants can and should travel north with the greatest chance of safety and success. Later, in Reynosa, Mexico, I witnessed the United Nations grantee, the IOM, hand out cash debit cards to migrants in long, snaking lines. The workers handing them out said they give $400 every 15 days to families of four, renewable every two weeks.

The UN tells me only the most vulnerable get this cash. But in Reynosa and again most recently in Tapachula, Mexico, where I saw the same long lines at the UNHCR office, nothing about them indicated acute vulnerability. They were regular family units of the sort crossing by the tens of thousands right now. Some showed me their debit cards there, too, and said were it not for this money they might have to leave the migrant trail and go home.

Further inquiry showed the cards are just part of a vast and sharply escalating UN program called “Cash-Based Interventions” all along the migrant trail through Latin America.

(26:52)

According to the UN documents and migrants, these include the unrestricted, unconditionally useable plastic cash cards and also cash-filled envelopes in some areas (never a good look — cash filled envelopes), money transfers for lodging, pharmaceutical prescriptions, and for something called “movement assistance”, which means transportation to move forward when camps empty and reform farther north.

Credible reporting shows that the UN is providing these forms of assistance all along the migrant trail, from South America to Texas. On a Cucuta to Bogota Colombia segment, the UN was seen handing out food, clothing, and necessities worth an estimated $200 to $300 a day per migrant.

And then there’s important non-cash assistance keeping migrants on the U.S.-bound trail.

In Tapachula, approval for Mexican asylum these days is important for permission to move legally beyond the southern provinces (where I was) — always to the U.S. border, of course. But many coming in from Guatemala innocently tell Mexican immigration they’re going for U.S. jobs, which is not an eligible asylum claim, and get denied.

But I found a UN-funded solution recently. The manager of a UN-funded migrant advocacy center told me a full-time staff of certified psychologists helps these migrants recover “repressed memories” of more eligible government persecution. This manager told me (in a recorded conversation) his group also trains migrants on the front end of the process how to pass muster with Mexican asylum interviewers the first time around.

(28:45)

He said these operations produce a 90 percent success rate for thousands a year. Other UN-funded psychologists offer what sounds like similar work. If this is all true, the UNHCR in Mexico has found another way to keep thousands more on the trail over the American border.

(29:00)

Many can, and, will defend this UN assistance as lifesaving, but others who learn of it reasonably interpret it — [*SEE BELOW FOR CONTINUATION OF THE WRITTEN STATEMENT]

— in a very different way, and they want to know more, of course. However Americans want to interpret this assistance to migrants they undoubtedly know they are joining an historic mass migration. All Americans deserve to know the full extent of it, because the United States is the UN’s largest donor and the U.S. Congress appropriates a huge amount of money to the UN every year.

(29:35)

I also would mention that the border is a national security concern. Just recently I was able to report that a Venezuelan crossed the Rio Grande from Matamoros to Brownsville, and that the FBI wanted that FBI-watchlisted individual held, and that ICE headquarters here in Washington, DC, intervened and demanded that, ordered that he be cut loose because he might get Covid in detention. That individual is now living freely, pursuing an asylum claim in Detroit. Thank you.

[*WHAT FOLLOWS IS THE WRITTEN STATEMENT PUBLISHED ON MR. BENSMAN’S WEBSITE ToddBensman.com]

— as material support for mass illegal migration.

However Americans interpret UN assistance in the new context of a historic mass migration event, public debate in the American square is necessary because the United States is the UN’s largest donor. In 2019, the last year in which expenditures are fully known, the executive branch and Congress separately allocated $11 billion, $5.5 billion of which filled accounts that fund migration and refugee support activities, Congressional Research Services recently reported.

It’s unclear what the U.S. will contribute in 2022. The Biden administration proposes $3.7 billion, and it remains to be seen what Congress will want to appropriate separately.

(30:18)

PERRY: I thank the gentleman. We now go to five minutes of questions. I would ask that members kind of keep an eye on the timekeeper over there, and police yourself as much as you can. I’ll be brief in my questioning and limit it to two of the witnesses.

Mr. JOHNSON, can you, I have five minutes, take about half of that, explain your daily routine, do you feel safe in your home? Does your family feel safe? What kind of protection if I may be so bold, if you’re willing to answer, do you employ on your own property in the United States of America?

(31:00)

JOHNSON: Yes, sir. So, just like every other American, every time you step out of your house you’re taking a risk. But in our area, because we have little to no law enforcement presence, we have no cell phone communication so the minute you get out of the house you’re on your own. 

It’s, these are things we shouldn’t be living with, and having to contend with on U.S. soil. Different things we’ve gotta do to protect ourselves? I travel around armed ninety-nine percent of the time because if something happens I have to rely on myself for personal safety. Every time I have to leave my wife and children at home alone, to be honest, it scares me to death. I wonder what are they going to encounter, what’s going to walk up to the house while I’m two or three miles away on the ranch, with no means of getting a hold of me if something does happen.

(32:00)

PERRY: So, your wife, if you’re two to three miles away, she’s alone at home with two small children?

JOHNSON: Yes.

PERRY: And you’ve had illegal immigrants, potentially people that were either trafficked by cartels or were cartel members, themselves, showing up at your property, at your house?

(32:17)

JOHNSON: Yes. And in the past, when Border Patrol resources are stretched thin, response times have been over an hour. If I have a group of illegal immigrants at my house trying to beat the door down, even if my wife is able to get out and call authorities for help, a lot can happen in an hour.

(32:35)

PERRY: I’ll say. Well, it’s a tragedy and it’s the reason we’re here today, we thank you for being here today and for being willing to come in and talk. Mr. BENSMAN, your job regarding Texas counterterrorism and intelligence, you’re the former manager of counterterrorism and intelligence, can you tell us, a lot of us might like to believe that this only happens at the border. But we’ve seen a seven-fold increase in fentanyl, in the United States of America. How does this, I’m mean obviously you’re in Texas, you’re close to the border, do you perceive that it affects the rest of the country and for people, say, in Pennsylvania — or anyone else in the country — what things do they need to be concerned about, whether it’s foreign terrorists or something close to home, regarding a wide open border, along the southern border of America.

(33:35)

BENSMAN: Right. Well, it’s not just people coming through, and will have second and third and fourth order impact. We can see a huge increase in the smuggling of fentanyl which is killing, I think we’re at about one hundred thousands dead now in the United States. This is coming over the Mexican border, primarily, with superlabs built by the cartels, especially Sinaloa and the Gulf Cartel, with Chinese precursor chemicals.

(34:15)

When you have Border Patrol agents diverted to Walmart greeting duty, and to duty involving taking photos and putting people on busses to the interior, you have gaps that are wide open to this kind of drug smuggling. 

(34:40)

Were it not for the Texas Department of Public Safety deployment to significant stretches of that border, we would not be seeing the kind of seizures that we are seeing right now. We’re seeing, luckily, now, some additional seizures but that’s on the Texas taxpayer. And all of that is heading into the interior along the interstate highways to all corners of the United States.

PERRY: Can I interrupt you for a moment. When you say “Walmart greeter,” for many listeners and viewers, they may not know what you mean by that. Can you explain what you mean which is, I think, the Border Patrol isn’t stopping people from coming across the border illegally, they’re welcoming them into our country. Right?

(35:24)

BENSMAN: Yes. I’ve spent a lot of time on that border, and you can go down to the Rio Grande Valley tonight, or any night, and watch four, five, six, seven rubber rafts abreast, just coming through, over from the Mexican side, dropping their loads of people, there are Border Patrol and National Guard there. Their job is to say, walk on up the riverbank over there and we’ve got —

PERRY: — why is that, why is that their job?

BENSMAN: They’re under orders, to do that —

PERRY: Under orders from who?

BENSMAN: From the DHS Secretary and the White House. They are —

PERRY: — Thank you, my time is expired, I appreciate it. The chair recognizes the gentle lady from New Mexico, Ms. HERRELL.

(36:05)

REP. YVETTE HERRELL: First off, thank you so much FreedomWorks, Freedom Caucus, everybody. Sadly, every single one of us are now in a border state because of what this administration has done. I have to rant for a little bit because it just makes me sick to listen to this. Mr. JOHNSON had eight members of the Oversight committee down there so we could actually see what was going on.

We’ve met with ambassadors from the northern triangle, Mexico, everywhere, and I’m telling you this is not just an American problem, this is a global problem because this impacts the economies, the GDP, the workforce. Just like, Todd, you were saying. This has such implications. But we have a border czar who doesn’t take this at all seriously. I think finally maybe she got to go to Cuba, she’d never been there before but she managed it.

(37:15)

Here’s the thing. We have now Secretary Mayorkas shifting the narrative to say that the most important threat to the American people is global warming. Or Climate change. Where we’re gonna now send resources to look at that. We have a wide open border, we truly have a medical emergency, under this entire pandemic we should have shut the border down. I know I’m preaching to the choir. Over a year ago. Because last July we have seven hundred percent uptick in Covid cases came across the southern border. And yet, we’re doing vax mandates and mask mandates and all these mandates on American people, and holding them to a completely different standard than we are to those that are breaking the laws to get here.

(38:05)

And, like Mr. Johnson said, it’s a five-strand barbed wire fence. That’s not gonna keep illegals out, it’s not going to keep corona out, it’s not going to keep Americans safe.

I could go on and on, but I want to ask a couple of questions. BRANDON [JUDD], you’d mentioned about morale, this is terrifying to me. Can you talk about the morate of the agents now and how is that playing a role in their job performance and their day-to-day lives?

(38:40)

JUDD: Absolutely. I’d like to mention, what the rancher said, he’s not fearmongering. There have been murders that have taken place, on the border, of ranchers. ROBERT CRENTZ was murdered in my backyard in Arizona, as a rancher, by illegal aliens. It does take place. That’s not fearmongering, what he was talking about.

(39:00)

The morale is at the lowest it’s ever been. And that’s to be expected. Even Chief Ortiz, mentioned in his contentious muster, that morale is lower than it has ever been. We lost more agents last year than we were able to hire. That doesn’t happen. So you can see what’s taking place.

One of the best jobs I ever had, when I was in college, I worked in construction in Phoenix. Extremely difficult job. But every day I left the job site, I got to look back, and I got to see what we’d accomplished. There was actually a tangible accomplishment that we could see.

In the Border Patrol, it used to be that way. We used to be able to go home and feel good about what we’d accomplished. Today, we go home and we feel worthless. We feel like we’re taking the American taxpayers’ money for doing absolutely nothing. Because, in effect, that is what we are doing. We are a speedbump on the way into the United States.

In fact, we aren’t even a speedbump, we’re actually facilitating. Because when we release these individuals, whether it’s with an NTR or an NTA, we are giving them de facto legal status to be here. We are rewarding them for violating our laws. The morale is in the tank. It is absolutely in the tank.

(40:20)

HERRELL: Thank you. And it’s a shame. Such a great agency. RUSSELL [JOHNSON], I think some of these pictures behind you are actually from the ranch, thank you for providing those, can you give the committee some kind of idea of how much material is sitting out on the ranch right now, wasting away, do you have a sense of either the value or just, amount?

JOHNSON: Well it’s hard to put into perspective just the amount, just the wall panels that are there, but I know for a fact that all the wall panels that I see around are enough and more to fill all the gaps that we have on our ranch. And along with the wall materials, there’s gravel they started crushing for all the improvements for the road, there’s lighting infrastructure, other sensor technology and stuff, just sitting in these yards rotting. And in some cases it’s literally walking off. People are coming and finding these stashes and loading it up and hauling it off. And this is taxpayer money, money that’s been allocated, that’s got a place to go, and it’s just sitting there wasting away when it could be doing its job, protecting my family, protecting the state, protecting this country. It’s very disheartening seeing all that. 

(41:49)

HERRELL: I just think until this administration takes a real look at what we have done to our international security, to our economy, ot the safety and health of our schools, our communities, our ranchers, I think it’s a tragedy to see people breaking the law and being rewarded and having more rights than ranchers and communities.

(42:09)

And I would tell you, if for nothing else, it is time we stand up and take a stand, because I can assure you Officer Galloway’s family, and the families that you’ve been acquainted with, need us, need this administration to listen, it’s time to take action, it’s time to take our country back. I appreciate you all being here.

(42:38)

REP. MICHAEL CLOUD: Thank you chairman, thank you witnesses, for being here, the stories you tell are tremendous and something that me and my district in south Texas see and understand and have for years now on a daily basis. There’s chases, there’s bailouts, running through ranch fences all the time. Bodies found on properties. Officer Rufurio passed away, he was transporting a Covid positive migrant. Recently the sheriff in my county, Victoria, they arrested someone and found they had connections to ISIS and MS-13, was handed over to federal authorities and eventually released to the public in Corpus Christie.

(43:18)

So this is a tragic situation we continue to face. Just last week there was a vidoe that showed the Biden administration, in the dark of night, was landing migrants in cities across the country, that news just broke in October. But back in July I wrote a letter with a number of people bringing up concerns that this was happening, in the dark of night, without coordination with local authorities, it’s the local counties, the school districts, the hospitals that are having to bear the burder of this.

(44:00)

But also there are concerns about the vetting process. Mr. EDLOW can you speak to what kind of documentation may be required on these sorts of flights?

EDLOW: Well, Congressman, when we talk about these flights, first of all, we’re talking about adults versus children, two different things.

The reports we’ve been hearing about recently has to do with single adult males, so let's focus on that. Those are the ones where I’m really not sure what the authority is to release these individuals outside of the border in the first place. 

Initially they’re coming across, we have Migrant Protection Protocols (MPP) in certain areas so I’m assuming — this is all an assumption because they don’t tell me anything anymore, obviously — I’m assuming that DHS says [if] they’re not in the areas where MPP is being used, so they’re not MPP.

(44:54)

Then they’re being told, well, why are they not Title 42? I have no idea why suddenly these individuals would not be appropriate for Title 42, to be immediately returned, or expelled rather, based on Title 42 protocols which are still in place.

(45:10)

But then the third question which Congress really needs to ask is, well, based on that, what is the authority, then, to release these individuals away from the border?

There is none. There is no parole authority that exists, under law, that I’m aware of, that would allow DHS to summarily release these individuals and then to put them onto these flights. So beyond what paperwork exists, whether we’re talking about a Notice to Appear or a Notice to Report — which I have other concerns with because in my experience, as a former ICE prosecutor, and my time [for] the House Judiciary Committee, as well as in the administration, Notices to Report don’t exist an any sort of mechanics that I’ve ever been a part of.

(45:55)

I’m not sure where the authority exists to put these individuals on these planes. They should be detained at the border. And so, the question comes down to, why is ICE who ultimately is the agency responsible for making these determinations, why is ICE determining that there is no detention space, I’m assuming, no detention space available? Are you telling me there are no beds in any of the facilities along the border?

CLOUD: Under the Trump administration we can talk about the infrastructure, we can talk about Safe Third Country, one of the big things he did was just to enforce the law on the books. Would you say this administration is not enforcing the law?

EDLOW: They’re side-stepping it. They’ve been side-stepping it. The Migrant Protection Protocols is something that has been law for years, well before the Trump administration, but the Trump administration was the first that ever tried to do that. They did it well. The Biden administration attempted to end it, that was stopped by the courts, thankfully. But if you go to the DHS website and look at the December 2 press release — I might be wrong on the date — but early December press release, they say very clearly and explicitly, we are reimplementing MPP because we have to, but we are committing to stopping it and terminating it as soon as the courts tell us we can.

CLOUD: That leads right into the next question, I was going to ask Mr. JUDD. When it comes to safe third country, I would ask Border Patrol how it is going, it’s supposed to be implemented, the court order, in good faith, would you say that is happening?

(47:45)

JUDD: Absolutely not. What they are doing is they are taking a handful of people each day in certain locations, starting in El Paso, starting with no more than 30 per day, that’s it. Wirth apprehensions exceeding more than 500 per day, only 30 people were being enrolled in the MPP.

Then it expanded on to San Diego. The first week there was only one station doing it, and it was only five people per day enrolled. And now it’s gone on to RGV but the same thing. We are apprehending between five thousand and seven thousand people per day, and we’re enrolling less than 100 people into the MPP. They are not implementing it in good faith.

CLOUD: My time’s up. Thank you very much for being here. I’m happy this conversation will continue because there is much to talk about.

PERRY: I thank the gentleman. Now Representative [LAUREN] BOEBERT.

BOEBERT: Thank you all so much for coming to DC and speaking with the Freedom Caucus today, thank you Chairman Perry for organizing this. This is powerful information that Amercans need to hear. Thank you so much for sharing this with the American people.

(48:53)

Our government’s first responsibility is to protect its people. That is the only way any of us want a big government. We want a government big enough to protect us. Big enough to keep us free. President Trump put the American people first. He built the big, beautiful wall. And then on day one of this Biden regime, this totalitarian regime, construction was halted at the southern border.

I’ve journeyed down there three separate times and I’ve seen the gaping holes in the wall. I’ve seen the construction [materials] that we discussed today, laying, wasting away, being stolen. I’ve seen access points of people coming across the border illegally. And biden isn’t saving anyone any tax money by not building the border wall. This is costing the American taxpayer five million dollars per day — five million dollars per day! — to build a wall that’s not being built.

(50:00)

Customs and Border Protection data shows that officers encountered nearly two million migrants, and that’s not including the hundreds of thousands of gotaways at the southern border since Biden took office. The nearly two million known encounters this past year is more than double what the Trump administration’s border patrol agents ever encountered at the height of the crisis.

While liberals and “open border” advocates continue to point the finger at anyone but themselves, we know this surge is due to the rollback of the Trump-era border policies. Mr. JUDD, you said it perfectly, we don’t need money, we don’t need more resources or agents, we need to implement policy. This can be resolved with policy. Just enforcing the law that’s already on the books. 

The Biden regime has ended border wall construction, terminated asylum cooperative agreements and limited the ability of ICE to arrest and deport illegal immigrants. The Biden regime has also wanted to make 158 million dollars to non-profits for legal services to illegal aliens so that they cannot be deported, so they will have proper representation.

(51:22)

In Joe Biden’s America we don’t just have an open border, we have a government that acts as a concierge and transportation shuttle for illegal aliens. Recently-released bodycam footage shows that the Department of Homeland Security is committing federal crimes by aiding and abetting illegal aliens to illegally enter our country on the taxpayer’s dime.

Joe Biden’s Department of Homeland Security has been shipping thousands of illegal aliens to small airports on red-eye flights, sending them on busses to small communities throughout the country, and providing them public benefits. In Colorado we have a new Department, it’s called the Department of New Americans. And this Department of New Americans is part of these public benefits that illegals receive when they get to their final destination.

(52:15)

Often these folks are transported without even having a background check. I saw this firsthand at the McAllen [Texas] airport where I saw dozens of groups of people who had, at the time, Notices to Appear in their hands, that de facto legal standing to remain in the United States. And now they have NTRs, just a simple notice to report. 

(52:37)

While this regime continues to literally break the law, they are continuing to threaten war against Russia over Ukraine’s borders, but they ignore the crisis they created at our own southern border. 

I have a lot more that I would like to say about this. But Mr. JUDD, I do have one question for you. The Biden regime ordered — ordered! — a full investigation because of a misleading photo of Border Patrol [agents] wielding reins to control their horses. Video released after the initial photos showed that the agent was not trying to “whip” criminals that illegally crossed our border, he was simply maintaining his horse. Why, do you think, the report ordered by Biden has not been released?

(53:25)

JUDD: Because he knows it’s going to show that he was wrong. That’s why. He is not going to be transparent.

Let me be clear. The report of investigation done by OPR, as far as I know, it has not come out yet. Now, I will tell you, I will get that report of investigation, they must give that to me if they’re going to try and discipline one of the agents.

I suspect that they are not going to discipline the agents and they’re just going to hope that this is going to go away. That’s what I think they are going to do. Because they know darn well none of the agents did anything wrong. They acted within their training.

And by the way, they were ordered down there on that operation there by the Secretary himself. It came from the Border Patrol and of course Secretary Mayorkas controls the Border Patrol, and he was actually there in Del Rio sector under that situation that DHS caused.

(54:20) 

PERRY: The Chair thanks the gentle lady and now recognizes Representative ROY.

CHIP ROY: Thank you Chairman. Great to see you guys here, great to have you here, Todd, from Austin, we live near each other in Texas, and Brandon I owe you a phone call. But hey, guys, we’ve got limited time, let me just kind of cut to the chase here.

(54:40)

We’ve covered a lot of issues that are important. I’m going to ask you to respond to these quickly. BRANDON, kind of like we did in the hearing we just had recently, would you agree, true or false, that cartels have operational control of our border more than the United States government currently? Operational control. 

JUDD: True.

ROY: Is it true or false that the Secure Fence Act of 2006 and other federal laws require us to have facilities, construction at the border, fencing and barriers, in order for the United States to maintain operational control at the border?

JUDD: That’s absolutely true and President Biden is going contrary to the law.

ROY: And currently is it true that there is rusting in fields in Texas rather than being put up?

JUDD: True.

ROY: Is it true that we are currently paying contractors not to build the fence that the federal law requires to be built and that Congress has appropriated for it to be built.

JUDD: As far as I know, that is correct.

ROY: Is it true that at our border currently there has been gunfire from cartels or other elements directed at law enforcement personnel on the United States side of the border?

(55:55)

JUDD: The cartels have been emboldened, and yes they are opening fire on our agents. 

ROY: Is it true that the current administration is refusing to enforce our laws with respect to, for example, how we handle “credible fear,” with respect to asylum law. In other words they’re allowing “credible fear” to be used as a gaping hole for people to come to the United States?

JUDD: I would absolutely say that this administration is aiding and abetting in the smuggling of individuals, to include allowing them to make false asylum claims.

ROY: And it’s purposeful?

JUDD: It is.

ROY: Is it true or false that we currently have migrant protection protocols that a federal judge has ordered, but yet the administration — as you testified to earlier to my friend from Texas — is refusing to actually follow that order, or to put it in a different way, they are only partially responding to that with, essentially, kind of a fake response while actively trying not to use migrant protection protocols?

JUDD: They are not acting in good faith, they are not implementing it correctly.

(56:58)

ROY: Is it true that we had Title 42 procedures during the pandemic that could be used to stem the tide — that the previous administration was using to stem the tide — that was helping Border Patrol do its job that today is being largely ignored — partially used, but largely ignored — to carry out our duty to stop people at the border?

JUDD: Under President Trump ninety-nine percent of those that crossed the border illegally, were amenable to Title 42 and they were expelled. Under this administration it’s approximately 39 percent of those individuals who are being expelled under Title 42.

ROY: Is it also true that federal law requires us to make sure that unaccompanied alien children are protected, and would you agree that currently unaccompanied alien children are in greater danger under current policies and [are we] ignoring our current laws to protect them?

(57:59)

JUDD: This administration has encouraged children to put themselves in the hands of dangerous criminals. They have encouraged women, vulnerable women, to put themselves in the hands of dangerous criminal cartels.

ROY: Is it also true that we are releasing migrants and ignoring laws to not release migrants, for example single adult males, into the United States, as I think Mr. EDLOW just testified? Is it not true that we’re releasing people without any real regard to the law?

JUDD: I’m surrounded by many attorneys, including yourself and Mr. EDLOW, and yes, you are very well aware, we are not following the law, we are, in fact, in violation of the law.

ROY: Mr. EDLOW would you quickly respond to that question?

EDLOW: I would agree with that, we’re not following the law. There is no authority for these releases.

ROY: We are releasing people contrary to the law?

EDLOW: Contrary to the law.

(58:24)

ROY: Is it true or false that President Biden, when he first came into office, halted deportation for 100 days, sending a clear signal to Americans and migrants that our borders would be opened.

EDLOW: He did do that, yes.

(58:40)

ROY: Let me ask you this. Are Americans in danger as a result of the open border? As a result of, for example, pandemic, Covid-19 exposure, Border Patrol agents being exposed, Americans being exposed, and the flow of people having Covid during a pandemic?

EDLOW: I believe so but I’ll let Mr. JUDD respond.

JUDD: Yes. We have already lost 42 agents to Covid-19 that have been considered on-duty deaths.

ROY: True or false, we’ve encountered something like 14,000 pounds of fentanyl — recognizing that a sugar packet of fentanyl could kill everybody in this room — in the last year, and that those drugs are now flowing into our country and into our communities and 100,000 Americans died of opioid poisoning last year?

JUDD: I try to stay measured but I’m extremely ticked off anytime I get this question. We have allowed the criminal cartels to create billions of dollars in revenue at the expense of U.S. citizens who are dying at a record rate in 2021.

ROY: American citizens are dead because of policies that are failing to stop the flow of fentanyl into the United States, true or false?

JUDD: Absolutely correct.

ROY: Is it also true that this is damaging the United States economic health and harming and wasting hard-earned American dollars in failing to secure the border?

JUDD: I would say absolutely.

(59:51)

ROY: Cartels are in power, illegal aliens are destroying private property, we’ve heard of fences being destroyed, livestock getting out, is that true or false? And then one last question.

JUDD: Cartels control the border right now.

ROY: And we’re placing American citizens at eminent risk of physical harm as a result of our failure at the border?

JUDD: It’s happening right now.

ROY: All right. I appreciate that. Mr. Chairman, I’m just trying to lay the predicate — of the failures of this administration — for our future actions.

PERRY: Thank you. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Ohio Mr. Davidson.

(1:00:19)

REP. WARREN DAVIDSON: I thank the Chairman. I thank everyone who worked to put this together and I want to especially thank the Border Patrol agents who are down there. This administration may not appreciate you, but the American people do. And I tell you, every law enforcement officer I talk about in my district knows that the border is important in Ohio.

And I’m not talking about the Canadian border. The problems we’re seeing in our district aren’t truckers coming across from Canada unvaccinated. It’s people delivering poison that’s killing Ohioans. One hundred thousand dead Americans, you highlighted it.

But the thing about it is, it’s not just people that want to come up here to find work, that are doing this, the people at our border are cartels. The cartels control our border, I don’t want to put words in your mouth — the cartels exert more control over the southern border, the border between the United States and Mexico, do the cartels control that border more than the United States of America?

(1:01:20)

JUDD: You aren’t putting words in my mouth. That is absolutely correct. They dictate to us what our operations are going to be. That should never happen.

DAVIDSON: So, we’re on defense at best?

JUDD: We don’t have a defense. 

DAVIDSON: So, they’re playing office, we’re not even playing?

JUDD: We’re not even in the stadium, let alone on the playing field.

DAVIDSON: So, this is having real consequences, you highlighted it, every law enforcement officer I’ve met with in the 8th district of Ohio says the same things. 

(1:01:52)

Here’s the problem. When I talk to the government, at the federal level, we’re taking a policing of the activities. The Border Patrol enforces this activity. ATF enforces that activity, somebody else enforces smuggling, ICE enforces interior. We are not holistically targeting the cartels as if they are enemies of our country. Have you seen any efforts to do that? Because we know who’s running it.

JUDD: There have been no new operations, policies or program put in place since this administration has taken office to help the Border Patrol go after criminal cartels and the profits they are generating.

DAVIDSON: And when you say profits they are generating, I don’t think people really understand, when somebody says, hey I want to come to America to get a job, I want a better life for my family, and, that’s the sympathy. People say, well, I can understand that, it’s a great opportunity. How do they get exploited by cartels?

(1:02:48)

JUDD: This isn’t organic. People don’t just wake up one day and say, I want to come to the United States. What happens is, the cartels go into all of these countries — and by the way it is not just Central America and Mexico, they are going throughout the world. We just apprehended people from Russia — Russia! — in both Yuma and McAllen. What happens is criminal cartels go into these countries and they advertise their services, and they promise these individuals they will be able to get them into the United States and will be released into the United States if they give them thousands of dollars.

(1:03:19)

DAVIDSON: When they give them thousands of dollars, they don’t always have that money, right? I mean, they’re placed very strategically, now, including with airfare, where are they placed?

JUDD: The vast majority are going into indentured servitude. It exists here in the United States, which is scary. I understand. I have a very good job, I make a good living. I don’t have thirty-five to fifty thousand dollars lying around, and that’s what Chinese are paying right now.

So when they get here to the United States they’re going into indentured servitude. To pay off those debts. That’s happening with everybody, including Central Americans even though they only pay four thousand dollars. 

DAVIDSON: So when people say, how is that actually collected, I know you're at the border, you're Border Patrol not interior enforcement, but they’re going to sanctuary cities, right? They’re going to very targeted regions in America?

(1:04:09)

JUDD: Right, the vast majority are not going to cities where they are going to be under fear of deportation. They’re going to the states and the cities where they know they are going to be protected.

DAVIDSON: So this becomes a hub for their operations, not only human trafficking that they work on, also drug trafficking, sex trafficking, what are some other things that the cartels operate in the interior of the United States, really, with the support from the UN and others?

JUDD: The cartels control all illegal activity that takes place on the border. Not just drugs and sex trafficking. They traffic exotic animals. We have apprehended parrots coming across the border illegally. We’ve apprehended animals all over the country. We seize counterfeit goods such as Oakley sunglasses. We seize all kinds of different contraband, not just those things. 

But it is true that the vast majority of their profits come from illegal immigration and drug trafficking.

(1:05:13)

DAVIDSON: You’ve had agents on the border that have received fire. Rifle fire, pistol fire, weapons that are meant to kill them or scare them off. What can you do in response to that?

JUDD: If we don’t see the threat — which the vast majority of the time we will not see the threat — we will hear where the gun fire is coming from but we will not see the threat. If we can’t see the threat, we can’t return fire because we could end up endangering people that —

DAVIDSON: Of course, you’ve got to be able to know and see your target. Do you get any support from the Mexican government on the other side of the border?

JUDD: Not at all.

DAVIDSON: Thank you.

PERRY: The chair thanks the gentleman and now recognizes Mr. Good from Virginia.

(1:05:50)

REP BOB GOOD: Thank you Mr. Chairman, thank you to our witnesses. We used an athletic analogy a few moments ago. It’s not that they’re on offense and we’re on defense. We’re actually running plays for the other team. 

I’ve been to the border three times in my first year, twice with you, Mr. Judd, led by our former chairman Mr. Biggs. And the last time I was there we had a shooting at the border while we were there, and we met with a rancher family who had lost a family member to an illegal alien because of the border invasion. 

There’s other important issues we talk about, and to Mr. Roy’s point a few moments ago, the harm that is done from this issue is irreparable. All the resources, as we learn today and we continue to message on this issue, all the resources committed by this administration to the border is to facilitate, to help, the purposeful willful invasion of our border. There’s nothing being committed to try to help mitigate, or to stop the situation.

We hear about our border czar who says she’s going to discover a root cause. Well, the root cause is American exceptionalism. We’re the best place in the world to live, and everybody wants to come here. That’s at least causing the demand. Of course we know our lack of policies, our lack of law and order is the reason why. We’re incentivizing what’s happening there at the border.

(1:07:06)

Carried to its logical conclusion in this administration, these current policies will bring America — carried to its logical conclusion, God forbid this president should be president longer than four years — would bring America down to the level of these countries that are invading our border with the help of our very own administration. 

And we all know it’s not a question about what to do in terms of policy. It’s what to do about a president who, by his actions, is declaring war on his own country. Never in the history of the country has our own president done more to harm the United States than this president has done just for this issue alone, in his first year.

Rasmussen — it’s shocking to me, to see the country is realizing this — released a report just recently that fifty percent of the country now supports the impeachment of Joe Biden. Many of us have already signed on to impeachment articles because of the border.

(1:08:05)

Mr. Bensman, you shared in your testimony about the psychologists that are being employed by the UN-funded migrant advocacy center who are working with illegal aliens to recover repressed memories to solidify these fraudulent eligibility claims for asylum. 

Can you speak a little bit more to that issue? What’s going on with these UN-funded psychologists who are actively coaching these illegal aliens on how to navigate our system?

(1:08:38)

BENSMAN: Sure. At the moment there is a bi-national agreement between the Biden administration and the Obrador government to slow-roll the incoming migrants at their southern border with Guatemala, so that it appears as though fewer are making it to our border. What they do is, they require that incoming migrants apply for Mexican asylum, or hardship papers, or some other residency, with which they then are able to move north, to northern provinces.

What happens, though, is thousands are backing up behind this bureaucratic wall down there, in Chiapas, and in order to get the asylum grant from the Mexican government right now, if you go in there are say, “I’m just trying to go to the United States to get a job,” they’ll turn you down. 

These organizations that I found down there are helping them turn the no into a quick yes. By, according to them, putting psychologists on the case to help them remember traumatic events that they couldn’t remember the first time.

They’re also — they tell me — training, ahead of time, first-time asylum seekers from Mexico in what not to say and what to say. I was told that American lawyers are also down there helping with the training. This is enabling thousands more American “asylum seekers” — and I put that in big quotation marks because very few of them are actually eligible for U.S. asylum, or even Mexican asylum — to keep going to our border.

(1:10:50)

Then, with these new memories, and with these stories, I’m sure they’ve practiced, they’ll probably tell our credible fear interviewers with USCIS the same stories.

(1:11:03) 

GOOD: Thank you for sharing that with us. My time’s expired. I did not know about that until your testimony but it’s not surprising the UN doesn’t care about American sovereignty with our own president doesn’t care about. Thank you Mr. Bensman.

PERRY: The chair thanks the gentleman and the chair recognizes Marjorie Taylor Greene.

(1:11:15)

GREENE: Thank you so much for coming. I’m so sorry, our country is completely failing. The federal government is failing its people, the taxpayers. This administration — I can’t even believe what they’re doing. It’s like they’re guilty of treason. 

I did introduce articles of impeachment on Joe Biden because of how he is failing and not doing his job at the southern border. But it’s much worse than that after hearing everything that the four of you have said today. And it is just, it’s practically embarrassing being a member of Congress that does nothing, nothing to stop any of this. Being here in Washington DC, just basically having our hands tied and having to do — thankfully, thank you for putting this together — a panel, but we’re not even allowed to use a hearing room in the Capitol. Can you believe that? 

(1:12:16)

I’m from Georgia, so I’m not along the border but I wanted to tell you about something that was in our Georgia news today. This is in the little, tiny county of Chatham, which is in South Georgia, where Savannah is. The counternarcotics team overdose deaths nearly doubled from 26 in 2020 to 48 in 2021. DEA agent Robert Murphy says the crisis is fueled by fentanyl. They’re not accidental, these are poisonings. 

Murphy says China is behind the epidemic. China knows the chemicals they’re sending. They know what the outcome is going to be. Mexican cartels producing and shipping it across our border know what the outcome is going to be. DEA agent Murphy says protecting kids from fentanyl is a big priority. He says a big part of that is holding social media giants accountable for what people sell on their platform. He said, you name it, Instangram, SnapChat are basically open drug markets now. ANyone can go online and get it.

So this issue at the border you were speaking about, Mr. Bensman, talking about fentanyl, talking about how the Mexican cartels are helping produce it, and it comes from China — what is the one thing that we can do to stop fentanyl from coming across our southern border?

BENSMAN: I wouldn’t say that there’s one thing. But I would say that there is a pointed lack of involvement by the DEA, I’m not hearing anything from the director of the DEA in the united states — or any of our other drug-controlling agencies — as to any sort of a plan for attacking that. 

It’s going to have to be in conjunction with the Mexican government. There are superlabs — everybody knows where they are — they are allowed to operate in the wide open. There’s got to be a corruption problem. I would find a strategy to attack those superlabs and put pressure on them, just like we used to in Colombia with the Colombian government, with Colombian and American collaboration. Operations. I think that would be a great place to start.

(1:14:52)

It’s one thing, also to pressure the Chinese about their imports but the cartels unfortunately have already figured out a whole bunch of workarounds anticipating that. I think it has to be done internationally, overseas, to the source countries for the precursor chemicals that are coming in.

But it especially has to be kinetic, physical action on the ground in Mexico. It’s got to be U.S.-initiated, U.S.-pressed, U.S.-forced diplomatically. But where’s the DEA? Where’s the head of the DEA right now?

(1:15:32)

GREENE: That’s a good question. Mr. Judd, can you tell me if there’s any coordination between the DEA and Border Patrol? Do they work together, and how do they do that?

JUDD: Theoretically that is supposed to happen, but for the most part agencies will guard their own intelligence because they want to be the ones to make the big busts.

To go back to your original question, what can be done, I would argue that we must start with illegal immigration. Because if we can control illegal immigration, then we can go after the cartels and their profits. 

But as long as our hands are continually tied, with the millions — because it is millions — of people that are crossing the border illegally, we’re always going to give the cartels the upper hand to continue to cross the products, create the artificial gaps in our coverage. We got to go after the illegal immigration first, and then we can go after the cartels.

GREENE: On my visit to the border I was told there’s only 19,000 Border Patrol agents for the entire border, our southern border, northern border and both oceans. New York City has approximately 35,000 police officers, just for perspective on how undermanned Border Patrol is. How many more Border Patrol agents do you think is needed to be able to do that job?

JUDD: I appreciate your willingness to give us more agents, but I would tell you first, let’s start with policy. I believe we can control the border right now. I don’t believe we need to pass this on to the taxpayer. I don’t think we need to burden the taxpayer any more than they are currently burdened. Let’s start with policy.

(1:16:58)

After the policy then we can look at what needs to be done after that.

GREENE: What are the policies that are missing? 

JUDD: We must hold people in custody. 

Even acting in the parameters of this administration. This administration said that the MPP [Migrant Protection Protocols] was inhumane, to make people wait in Mexico. So, I’m willing to act within their parameters. And I told this to the administration, to the transition team, we must hold people in our custody.

We must challenge Flores, then we must hold people in our custody pending deportation. The moment we do that, people will stop coming.

Everybody will argue, we don’t have the resources, we don’t have the facilities to hold two million people. We don’t. But the moment we start holding people and stop releasing them, they will stop coming. Therefore we don’t have to throw resources at this problem. 

(1:17:40)

PERRY: Thank you, the gentle lady’s time has expired. The chair recognizes Representative Bishop.

REP. DAN BISHOP: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I entered Congress in September of 2019. And 2019 had followed that May peak, where, the former administration adapted to circumstances, changed policy, and proved that this can be dramatically changed. There can be effective border enforcement.

I reflect, as we sit here today, and I concur — first of all, thank you to these fantastic witnesses, thank you Mr. Chairman, to Freedom Works for allowing us this facility — it is obscene, it is outrageous beyond — it’s not even an adequate description to call it outrageous. That we are sitting here with this narrow platform to try to amplify for the American people what is happening here.

(1:18:38)

What must an American who watches this believe? I hear it all the time, on a variety of subjects throughout my district back in North Carolina, that people are desperate to know what is happening, what can we do?

We have, by the witnesses’ description, we have a conspiracy if you will of the current administration of the United States, the President of the United States, UN organizations that we mostly finance, American lawyers who are traveling to try to facilitate false claims of asylum. 

(1:19:20)

So that people can flood into the United States. I’ll be honest with you. Secretary Mayorkas came before Homeland Security — he won’t come before Judiciary, by the way — but he came before Homeland Security a couple times, earlier this year, and he would say, “we have a plan, and we are executing our plan.”

And I kept seeing that appear, that phrasing appear in all of our, all the transcripts, in the Senate and in the House, he would say “we have a plan, and we are executing our plan every day.”

And I asked him one time, I said, “so is this the plan?” And he sorta started trying to backpedal as if the answer was no, but I think — there’s no denying it. This is intentional, it is intentional policy. I think I want to venture to ask you, witnesses, if you can explain to me why those who are pursuing this seek to do it?

They certainly see that it is imposing unprecedented human misery. People are dying and suffering. You said something a moment ago, Mr. Judd, and I’m going to question you first. You said that the vast majority — that was your phrasing — of migrants coming in illegally are entering into indentured servitude. And makes all the sense in the world, whether it turns on the numbers three thousand dollars or five thousand or sixty five hundred or thirty three thousand for some particular ethnicities or points of origin, people are paying more money than people in those circumstances have to come here. 

And if they’re paying it, that means they’ve got to pay it off by working for somebody as a, essentially as a slave. Why are those who have worked together to do this, why are they doing it?

JUDD: One and one alway equals two. I’m gonna use the evidence that has been gathered to come to that conclusion. They are simply trying to appease their far left base. That’s why they’re doing it, that’s what they care about.

When you ask Secretary Mayorkas about his plan, I would argue that he does have a plan. His plan is to pull our resources off the border to appease that far-left base that this administration is so concerned about to bring them out to the polls.

BISHOP: You know, Mr. Judd, I accept that, to a degree, and it makes sense that sort of an empty head, full heart would be the reason you see people cite.

But you can’t watch what is happening and believe that you’re acting in compassion for anybody. No one on the left can genuinely believe that when you do it to this degree and with this result, that that’s good? That it helps somebody? Mr. Bensman, what about that? Is that the answer, that it’s just inability to reason?

BENSMAN: I’m asked that question all the time, I never have a good answer. I do believe that there’s an appeasement going on to the Bernie Sanders block of that party that they campaigned all along during 2020, they said what they were going to, and they did it.

They reduced, you know they ended, they abolished ICE for all intents — they’re on — ICE is still there on paper. But it’s, it’s abolished. They’re not doing deportation. They said that they were going to do that.

(1:22:31)

I think it’s part of an ideology, kind of a theology, on the left, about immigration and immigrants that’s disconnected from reality about what causes immigration and who they are. They tend to kind of caricature what an immigrant is, and how they’re, you know, running from some existential threat. And that sort of messaging. But I don’t think very many of them have actually been on the ground and spent any time with immigrants themselves, so they don’t understand that the immigrants that they are enticing to come here are dying because of it.

BISHOP: Well said.

BENSMAN: And directly.

BISHOP: My time’s expired, I just want to say one thing as I conclude. When ideology trumps common wisdom and common sense, no limit to the destruction that is portended by that. 

And I shudder to think about the fact that the only way to stop this is for a president or someone to be impeached. And if you don’t do that and this continues and grows for three more years, where will America be? I thank you Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

PERRY: The Chair thanks the gentleman, the Chair now recognizes Ralph Norman.

REP. RALPH NORMAN: I want to thank each one of you for coming today. You know, it is a crying shame that we can’t have — as has been mentioned — can’t have this meeting at the people’s House. It’s not Nancy Pelosi’s house. We can’t have this at the Capitol, where the vacant rooms stand. 

Brandon, you are exactly right, you and Art were there when we saw Border Patrol agents, I think he was a former baseball player, changing diapers. We saw the fancy busses hauling the children — because they didn’t want to be seen in a cage — to hotels? How safe is that? We saw — if we took a picture, they were gonna take our cameras — we saw at McAllen’s airport, where out of 120 seats, 100 of them were illegals, had the cardboard “I’m illegal, I can’t speak English.” They all had white papers. 

When Mary Miller and I took a picture, in two seconds you had an American demanding to give the, delete the picture. We said, hell no we’re not doing that. Well you have to. Who says? I mean, it’s this kind of insanity that’s taking place. Like Dan said, they’ve got a plan. And it’s to get votes.

Just like they’re doing in New York, to put people throughout the country. And I asked Todd earlier, what do we, we’ve got three more years of this insanity. Three more years. If he’s impeached, Dan, look who’s backup. But that being said, each of you, what should we be doing.

(1:25:23)

To either get the National Guard to stop this insanity? To get these people out of the country once they’re here? We’re going to have five million potential illegals that’s gonna kill, in other states, they’re going to kill people, there’s already been, like Mollie Tibbetts, going to be murdered by illegals. What would you say that we need to, what actions should we take, to try to make some kind of difference in the three years left in this insane, tyrannical government. Let’s start with Brandon.

JUDD: I always appreciate as much resources as we can get, but let me be very clear. We can line up ten thousand Border Patrol agents holding hands along the entire southwest border. Once somebody puts their foot inside the United States, I then have to take them into custody. If they claim asylum, I then have to release them. That’s simply the facts.

So, even if we had National Guard down there, to try to stop the illegal immigration, it’s not going to stop it because of the policy. 

What we need the National Guard there for is, we need them to be our eyes. So that we can go after the gotaways. The gotaways are extremely dangerous, we have to absolutely be concerned with that, so that’s very important. 

But the fact remains, we must start with policy. Now you ask what can you do? Shed a light on the situation. You’re doing a very good job, I appreciate this hearing because you’re trying to shed light on the situation. The American public overwhelmingly wants a secure border. The American public doesn’t know what’s going on. And that’s the problem.

I don’t care whether you agree with me, whether you disagree with me. All I care about is that you have all of the facts. So that you can formulate your opinions based upon all the facts. The mainstream media hides the facts from the American public.

NORMAN. Joseph?

(1:27:00)

EDLOW: Thank you sir. For the remainder of this Congress, continue to use your oversight ability as best as you are able to, as Brandon said, shed the light as you can. Make sure that this administration comes before Congress to explain its authority for everything it’s doing, to point out that they, in fact, have no authority for anything they are doing. That they’re doing, all the, all of the actions they have taken are based on absolutely nothing. There is nothing in the law. I can tell you, there’s nothing in the law for everything they’ve been doing and they need to come before Congress and explain that.

In the meantime, Mr. Biggs has an excellent bill out there, there are other bills out there to make the necessary changes that we need to see on the immigration side of things. That will fix the loopholes on asylum, that you’ve heard so much about over the years, that will fix the Flores issues, that will fix the UAC unaccompanied alien children issues to make sure they are treated in a different fashion that actually makes sense.

(1:27:54)

There are other things, too. So, in the next Congress, when there’s a different majority under new leadership in the House Judiciary and Homeland Security, hopefully at that point, there will be a new agenda at that point. We will be able to see some of that legislation move forward. Just keep talking about it. Again, keep with the oversight, keep moving forward with that. 

But that is what needs to happen.

(1:28:25)

We’ve gotta keep moving forward with this, and that’s the only way, to continue to put this pressure. Because in the meantime, you’re going to continue to see bad policy that’s going to come through, without any authority, but with regulations that are going to keep coming down from this administration that’s going to be even worse than what we’re expecting.

NORMAN: Todd, I’m out of time, this has been a complete sellout of our country. Ya’ll keep the ideas coming. The fentanyl, that’s been mentioned, we lost, must be a hundred thousand and one, to add to the total, a twenty year old athlete.

PERRY: Thank the gentleman. Recognize the gentleman from Alabama. Mr. Barry Moore.

MOORE: Let me say thanks for being here, gentlemen, I appreciate it. Brandon, I’ve been down to the border a couple of times and we’ve talked a little bit, but you know, I think one of the things we haven’t talked much about today, you mentioned indentured servants.

(1:29:18)

So, the folks crossing the border there’s a different price, depending on, I hear twenty thousand from Syria, eight thousand from the triangle, and maybe four thousand from Mexico at one time. I’m sure with inflation. Actually the only supply chain we’ve got working right now is the southern border right now, and drugs, right? 

My question is this, if there are people who do not have the money to pay, and they can be an indentured servant or a slave. The other option I was told when I was down at the border is that people can actually backpack fentanyl heroin or maybe cocaine across the border and pay a passage. So, those citizens or those individuals coming here illegally have an option. And here’s what the policies of the Biden administration have done.

(1:29:57)

We’ve either created slaves, number one, or drug mules. And so, is that the case, and if so, what, I know we’ve talked a little bit about fentanyl, what drugs are you seeing being backpacked by these mules to pay passage coming into the country? What are the primary concerns as far as the drugs we’re seeing right now?

(1:30:14)

JUDD: We’re seeing everything. We’re seeing heroin. We’re seeing cocaine, large amounts of cocaine. Whether you agree or disagree with legalizing marijuana, what we saw, now, is that the moment you’ve taken marijuana out of the equation, then all of the other drugs come into prominence.

So now we’re seeing large amounts of cocaine, large amounts of heroin, and obviously the fentanyl is a huge problem. So we’re seeing much harder narcotics than we’ve ever seen before, and it’s all generated by, again, policy.

MOORE: So drug cartels basically are striking while the iron is hot. They’re moving the really expensive, really dangerous stuff across the southern border while it’s so porous right now. 

I have a physician in my district, she actually works in a college town, and she has tried to send a warning out. We are losing college students to fentanyl. They don’t know what they’re getting. A lot of them see it as a photo, or they look it up online and say, yeah this is what I bought.

But we’re having those fatalities as a result. That’s certainly a problem. Mr. Bensman, did I understand correctly — and this is the first I’ve heard this, I’m glad I was here today — that we are actually, we are funding the UN, who are in turn paying people to cross our border or funding the process for this invasion on our southern border, so the government is paying for the invasion on the southern border? Is that kinda what I took away from what you said?

BENSMAN: The UN is operating all along the migrant trail. The form that their operations take is to support the migrants on the trail. According to their own documents, it’s to empower migrant decision making. 

(1:31:53)

Well, I mean, if you give migrants the power to make those decisions — in other words eliminate the financial pressure that would normally come into play on the trail, they’re going to choose to keep going north.

It’s opaque, we don’t know the full extent of how much money — of our money — is going into “cash-based interventions,” but we know that plenty is, and we also know that the United Nations has planned to ramp up the cash based interventions program dramatically for 2022 and beyond.

MOORE: Thanks, I appreciate the time you’ve spent with us today and answering our questions. So basically — I’m going close with this — so basically the Democrat policies are number one we’re either going to create indentured slaves, or slaves, coming to the country, or we’re going to create drug mules. That’s, so a closed border is truly a compassionate border. And so, we’ve got a problem on the southern border. I yield back.

PERRY: I thank the gentleman and now recognize Representative Matt Rosendale. 

(1:33:00)

ROSENDALE: Thank you very much Mr. Chair, thank you very much to our witnesses today. This is very important to help us keep a spotlight on this issue. Because as everyone has been stating, the administration doesn’t want to listen to it, the general public doesn’t hear about it because the mass media isn’t helping us promote it, so, it is up to the members here in this room and the witnesses here today to help us get this message out.

I would like to start off directly diving into the questions. Mr. Judd, you have talked about the different aspects of your job, and what you’ve been doing, and I don’t want to get into the policies, because we know the policies are attracting all of these individuals. So what I want to get at is, besides the fact that we are being flooded with additional people because of the policies that are attracting them, what would be the differences in your day? What I’m trying to find out about is what procedures have been eliminated or prohibited from your previous law enforcement practices that you can no longer do? Can you contrast a little bit of that? From 18 months ago?

JUDD: That’s the problem. We’re still doing all the paperwork we’ve ever done before. Which is pulling our resources out of the field, so that’s a problem. The main thing that we’re seeing is that we just don’t have people patrolling the border. For instance, just a couple days ago, the Yuma area of responsibility covers a little bit more than 150 miles. We only had four people — four! — agents patrolling 150 miles of border.

(1:34:35)

Now, that 150 miles of border normally takes about 75 to 90 agents. We had four agents out there. So what’s happening is, all of our resources pulled out of the field, we were not able to patrol the border properly like we used to do.

(1:34:51)

ROSENDALE: So, with the border wall system, in many of those areas, how many Border Patrol agents do you need to cover those areas? If we were to keep that all intact?

JUDD: So, without a wall, it would take about — the areas are different, it depends upon the terrain. But generally speaking, if you don’t have any walls or any barriers or infrastructure it would take about one agent per linear mile to patrol. With a wall, we can then get away with one agent to every three to five linear miles. It allows our resources to be a lot more effective in patrolling a lot larger area.

ROSENDALE: And while they are patrolling that area, would you say all that additional technology that also your agents are much effective and safe at the same time?

JUDD: Yeah, we get to dictate where illegal border crossings take place. Just as an example, one of my areas, Naco, Arizona, prior to any infrastructure whatsoever we had one hundred thousand apprehensions every year. After the wall was built those hundred thousand apprehensions dropped town to ten thousand apprehensions.

But not just that, our percentage of effectiveness went up ninety percent with the walls. So, yes, they are extremely effective.

(1:36:04)

ROSENDALE: And again, with the apprehensions going up and having all those deterrents in place we started seeing the actual encounters going down anyway because folks knew they were going to have these problems.

I don’t believe that the general public understands the human suffering that takes place with illegals as they enter into our country. I think there’s a lot of folks across the United States that believe once they’re here, their life is going to be better. You’ve had many of the members ask questions about this. But isn’t it true that every illegal alien that comes across the border has a financial obligation to pay to the cartel?

JUDD: They do. That’s why you’re seeing, in so many different homes, you’re seeing up to 30 people in an apartment, and they just rotate in and out when they go to work. That’s simply because they have to earn the money to pay back the cartels before they’re actually free to pursue what they want. They must pay the cartels first.

(1:37:01)

ROSENDALE: And what happens to a lot of these young women as they’re traveling north? Isn’t there like certain trees that they hang undergarments in? Could you tell the public about that?

JUDD: Those are called “rape trees”. Those are where rapes took place and, the people that raped — and these are children, by the way, these are children, these are twelve year olds, these are eleven year olds, they’ll take their undergarments and hang them on the tree to make sure that everybody knows that individual was raped right there.

Democrats claim to be the party that cares about people. Yet it’s their policies that are encouraging these women and children to put themselves in the hands of these criminal cartels. If we truly believed in what’s best for people, we would follow the rule of law. The rule of law is what made this country the greatest country in the world, and the farther we get away from the rule of law, the more we become more like the countries these people are fleeing from.

ROSENDALE: Thank you and my last question I’d like to go to is Mr. Edlow. The state of Montana has about a million people. We’ve had two million encounters in the past year on the southern border. It costs us about $5.3 billion to run our state for the entire year. What is the cost to educate, medicate, house and provide food for all of these illegals on a, on a daily basis.

(1:38:21)

EDLOW: I couldn’t tell you the actual cost, Congressman, it’s significant, it would depend on the state that’s housing them, we’ve seen that, if you follow the lawsuit that’s been filed by Texas and other states, they’ve estimated the cost has been pretty significant.

ROSENDALE: Thank you. Thank you so much. Mr. Chair I yield back.

PERRY: Thank the gentleman, the Chair recognizes Representative Tom Tiffany.

(1:38:41)

TIFFANY: Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. I submit to you we should be talking to Canadian truckers in Ottawa, Canada, right now, and asking them to be coming to the southern border. In spite of what Mr. Judd said, they might be somewhat effective. I don’t know, Mr. Chair, if anybody has asked this question — wasn’t there a federal judge, Mr. Edlow, that said MPP needed to be reinstated? Remain in Mexico?

(1:39:05)

EDLOW: Yes, sir.

TIFFANY: What is the status of that?

EDLOW: So, MPP was reinstated. The federal judge did say that, the circuit court upheld that, the federal government asked for a stay by the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court denied that stay request. So the injunction is in place to, the MPP is still operable, at this point, MPP is in operation that’s why DHS is required to continue to move forward with it. 

But the December press release that I mentioned earlier, DHS said, we’re going to continue to operate MPP per the injunction that prevents us from stopping it. But we’re only doing it per that injunction. As soon as it’s gone, we’re going to stop. 

TIFFANY: So, in effect, it has not been enforced and it may be time for the judge to file contempt charges against Secretary Mayorkas?

EDLOW: Well, it is being enforced, but not, to the extent that it’s being used throughout the country, it’s not being used, as Mr. Judd has said, so yeah, I think probably people should look into how it needs to be —

TIFFANY: I believe the Biden administration is in contempt. Mr. Bensman, I had a chance to go down to Texas, and I saw the International Organization for Migration went to Panama, saw them there, saw them in Fort McCoy in Wisconsin when the Afghan evacuees came to the various ports across the United States.

(1:40:34)

And, I think you’ve all addressed it somewhat, the money coming from the UN. Isn’t there also private money flowing into IOM or OIM?

BENSMAN: Yes, there is a percentage of the pie that comes from private donors, I can’t tell you what it is. Their books are incredibly opaque, you can’t really see much of how the money moves within the UN among the agencies.

I think the last really good report was in 2019 where there was some clarity there, but you know, the answer is I don’t know how much, but they do get donations. 

TIFFANY: I submit to my colleagues that this should be one of the primary issues that a year from now — first of all it should be happening next month — having these oversight hearings in the Congress of the United States. But next year, certainly, this has to be at the very forefront. And this needs to be connected with the appropriations committee and those people that spend the money of the United States’ people.

I don’t know who wants to grab on to this one, but, aren’t some of the social media companies in violation of the law by aiding and abetting illegal immigration?

BENSMAN: I’m gonna let a lawyer have that one.

(1:41:56)

TIFFANY: I think it’s very clear, when we heard a VP, I think from Facebook, who said that, yes, we do let information to get out in regards to illegal immigration and that sometimes does facilitate it. And he said it very matter-of-factly. Here we are, we have the FBI and other agencies and social media companies censoring people for doing legal things, and they will not stop the communication for the illegal activities. Mr. Bensman, I see that you have the mic.

BENSMAN: I will say this, having spent a lot of time face to face with migrants, hundreds of them, down there in Mexico, et cetera. I have never met one who did not have a modern cell phone fully connected to the internet. They use these as sort of live-time intelligence networks. About what’s happening further up the trail, to those futher back down the trail.

TIFFANY: So in other words, social media is being used to conduct an illegal activity. 

BENSMAN: All day, every day.

(1:43:17)

TIFFANY: I want to ask one other question. Mr. Johnson, should the United States, should we be, should someone be filing an environmental lawsuit for the damage that’s being done on this southern border?

JOHNSON: We’re worried about climate change and all that, I look at the trash and filth that’s left in the environment, not just in my area but all along every portion of the southern border, all the trash that’s left behind. It’s sickening. What we’re concentrating our efforts on, all that I see, is happening on the border.

TIFFANY: I’ll yield back, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

PERRY: The chair thanks the gentleman. And the chair now recognizes Mr. Clay Higgins.

(1:43:56)

HIGGINS: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Gentlemen, thank you for being here. America has arguably the most generous and compassionate immigration system in the free world. If we would, as a nation, just enforce the laws that currently exist, we’d be just fine. 

We have fences and walls around our homes and neighborhoods, not because we don’t want strangers to come knock on the door if they want to come talk to us, but because we want them to come through the gate. America has plenty of gates — our ports of entry — and these illegal crossing that we’re discussing today coming between our ports of entry, Customs and Border Patrol is overwhelmed by the policies that have been presented to the world by the Biden administration.

Thus we have to deal with it as a nation. And the Democratic majority will not allow us to meet in the people’s house. In the house of “we the people,” we the people are not allowed to meet to discuss the disintegration of our sovereignty as a nation.

Democrats should be ashamed. They will be held responsible. Whether or not they ever feel shame, we shall see. Brandon, I’d like for you to explain to those who will witness this hearing, the significance of the gotaways regarding their criminal intent. Everyone that crosses the border illegally, by definition, is criminal. But the large percentage of the crossers are those seeking to be processed. Would you concur, yes or no, that if you cross the border illegally and you’re seeking processing, you one hundred percent are going to receive that. Is that not correct? You can find the border?

(1:45:53)

JUDD: That is correct.

HIGGINS: Okay. So, those that are avoiding processing by federal agents or local or state law enforcement, those are the hardened criminals — your guys running the drugs, the fentanyl, the human trafficking, sex trafficking, children. So, when we talk about numbers, my numbers are 2.5 million crossing in this past year with six hundred thousand gotaways.

You’re talking about six hundred thousand determined criminals coming into our country that are merging with existing criminal networks across the country and the nation now has to deal with the surge in violent crime. If you’d directly connect these dots, please, if you would, I’ll give you the floor and the balance of my time. Just take your time and explain why America is currently experiencing a surge in violent crime, and how that connects directly to the policies and decisions that are being delivered out of our White House on to America.

(1:47:02)

JUDD: We call the people that are trying to evade apprehension, we call them runners. When we apprehend runners and we run them through — this is when we fingerprint them and get their criminal records back — we apprehended people that have been wanted for murder. We have people that have abused children, have been arrested and spent multiple years in prison for rape. We arrest people that have been convicted of violent crime all the time. These are the runners.

When you look at the number of people that have been able to evade apprehension — at a minimum, these are the ones that we know of, the ones we are actually able to count — more than four hundred thousand people evaded apprehension in the year 2020 — in fiscal year 2021.

If you ask any Border Patrol agent how many people we actually detect, they’re going to tell you that we detect between sixty to eighty percent of those people that actually cross the border. So there’s a still a forty percent — twenty to forty percent that we —

HIGGINS: My number is thirty-five. That’s pretty accurate?

JUDD: Pretty close. So when you look at that, four hundred thousand known gotaways, and then you add on top of that, certainly, it’s very easy to say, and I believe that it is a very conservative number, that about eight hundred thousand people evaded apprehension in the [fiscal] year 2021.

(1:48:18)

And that’s a serious problem. We don’t know who these people are, we don’t know what their intentions are, we don’t know where they are going. We obviously don’t know what their criminal record is, and that is scary.

(1:48:30)

HIGGINS: Well we do know their intent was to avoid being processed. And therefore, their entry into our nation was very likely to plug into the criminal networks that exist across the country. So, the existing criminal networks are being pushed into territories and neighborhoods that they hadn’t touched before. Can you respond?

EDLOW: If I may, Mr. Higgins, very quickly [inaudible], the individuals that are coming through the gate, as you mentioned earlier, too, CBP is also being overwhelmed by them, based on the policies that have been put in place by this administration. And many of those individuals, too, including many who are in the UAC [unaccompanied alien children] population have also found their ways into the criminal networks that you’re talking about, that Mr. Judd is talking about.

So, it is not just those that have gone into the “getaway” populations that have tried to avoid and evade apprehension. But those, in fact, that have been processed, and that have been put into various places in the immigration system and have also been put into guardians’ care as unaccompanied children, that have ultimately turned out to be part of criminal gangs and also other types of criminals. So, there are —

HIGGINS: It’s horrible all the way around.

(1:49:45)

EDLOW: Absolutely. 

HIGGINS: My time has expired. It’s abhorrent what we are witnessing at our southern border. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing.

PERRY: The Chair thanks the gentleman. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Virginia Mr. Cline.

(1:50:06)

REP. BEN CLINE: Wanna thank our witnesses, wanna thank the Chairman, wanna thank Freedom Works for hosting today. It is abhorrent, as Congressman Higgins just said, that our leadership in Congress is not focusing attention on this issue, is not making rooms available, time available, for looking at this crisis which is impacting our country, which is impacting districts as far into this country as ours here in Virginia.

Instead of securing the southern border, the president and congressional democrats have doubled down on the open border policies that are only worsening the crisis and making our communities less safe. 

And since taking office the president has stopped building the wall, brought back catch and release, got rid of the remain in Mexico policy, and essentially promised amnesty to millions. It’s resulted in nearly 2 million illegal aliens having been encountered at our southern border in 2021 and another 800,000, as was just stated, estimated to have evaded apprehension — and many of those are our most dangerous criminals crossing.

(1:51:12)

The number of illegal crossings at the border has risen at a faster rate, under Biden, than at any time in recent history. Border officials have estimated that nearly 400,000 illegal immigrants have escaped into the U.S. without being caught, and out of 104,000 migrants issued “Notices to Report” by ICE between the end of March and the end of August of 2021, 47,000 failed to report within that time frame. This highlights the failure of “catch-and-release.” I’m currently leading a letter to ICE on this specific issue. 

Under President Biden’s watch more pounds of fentanyl were seized at our southern border in 2021 than the previous two years combined. And that was the leading cause of death — overdose of fentanyl — in the U.S. for Americans age 18 to 45. 

So, I want to emphasize that this is a crisis. It’s a crisis in many different areas.

I’ve been to the border — not the part that the vice president went to, but the actual border, down at McAllen. And I was concerned with how spread out our border agents were, how much territory they have to cover. It was stated we have 19,000 agents, but Mr. Judd, you testified that we could do without an increase in the number of agents if we simply changed policies. Can you reiterate that point, that if we simply enforce the laws that are on the books, and actually maybe make some improvements to policies, we can enforce our laws adequately and secure our border without increasing the number of CBP agents?

(1:52:36)

JUDD: So, right now, because of the influx of illegal immigration — well, I shouldn’t say influx — because of the crisis that exists, the vast majority of our agents are doing administrative work. They’re not actually patrolling the border, they’re not doing a law enforcement function. They’re doing administrative work. Because of that we just don’t have resources in the field.

But if you go back to President Trump’s time, when we were able to drop illegal immigration to 45-year lows, historic lows, we had 80-90 percent of our resources out on the border. And with those 80-90 percent of our resources on the border, we can do what is necessary. But it’s gotta start with policy and policy. Policy first will allow us to secure the border.

CLINE: We’ve got several different crises but this crisis is creating harm for our national security, the cartels are emboldened, you spoke to that. How can we address comprehensively this emboldened criminal element and reduce its effectiveness in controlling our border?

(1:53:38)

JUDD: One of the things we’re seeing, as well, is prosecutions are down. So, we just had an agent in Naco, Arizona, who, the criminal alien tried to stab him to death. Pulled out a knife, tried to stab him to death. The U.S. Attorney’s office can charge that individual for attempted murder. That’s what the U.S. Attorney’s office can do. It’s my understanding that the U.S. Attorney is going to charge him with assault. That’s it. 

So, if we’re not prosecuting crime, then you can expect crime to continue to rise. 

CLINE: Are we in touch with the senators from the border states who are essentially making recommendations about judges that are in the state and their ability to enforce the laws on the books and try and hold these criminal elements accountable?

(1:54:27)

JUDD: Congressman Biggs can speak to this, but the senators in my state are Mark Kelly and Kyrsten Sinema, so I think we know where we’re going there.

CLINE: I want to also mention that we have harm to the interior of the country, we have drug trafficking that’s affecting states like Virginia, we have effects to our state budgets as well. We have a burdened K-12 system, we have a burdened law enforcement system, we have even a burdened high ed system where the last administration changed the laws to give in-state tuition to illegal immigrants who were eligble, thus taking away in-state slots from legal Virginians. So there’s this trickle-down effect on state resources, and we need to address that as well. 

My time is running out but I do want to focus on this UN funding and how we are coaching migrants to — who are not eligible for asylum because they don’t meet the criteria — to talk about things other than looking for a job. Can you talk about, and just remind people watching, what is eligibility asylum in this country — and it may be that Mr. Edlow needs to answer this — but eligibility for asylum is not just looking for a better job. You have to be coming from a country facing, what?

(1:55:56)

EDLOW: Well, it’s not about coming from a country facing anything. There are five grounds for asylum. You have to be in fear of your life — persecution on account of your race, religion, national origin, political opinion, or membership in a particular social group. And if you don’t meet that criteria, you should not be able to get asylum.

Unfortunately, this administration, and frankly “open borders” advocates and many on the left believe that economic asylum is a thing, that it should be recognized under the law, and that fear of generalized violence is also something that should be recognized by the law. And there is no law that suggests that that is the way that it should be. That’s not the way Congress has ever written it. 

We’ve always tried to enforce the law, and unfortunately, over the past several years, one of the large issues that we faced was being continually told that we were destroying the asylum system. No, we were restoring the integrity of the asylum system. And that’s what we always strived to do, and they are, in fact, destroying the integrity of the remaining, the asylum system.

CLINE: By enforcing our asylum laws we will control our borders.

(1:57:07)

EDLOW: And I would just mention, yes, this information — I’m sorry, I know we’re out of time — Mr. Bensman’s revelation that the UN is doing this is awful. It’s also something we’ve seen for years from coyotes and others, along the border, where Border Patrol and others have found pamphlets making it very clear to migrants exactly what to say to asylum officers at the border. What to say to get past the credible fear stage. What are the key words, what are the key concepts, this is not a new concept but it’s horrible —

CLINE: But how many [inaudible] —

EDLOW: — that we are paying for this through the UN.

CLINE: There you go. How many of those coyotes were paid for with our tax dollars.

EDLOW: That’s exactly —

(1:57:50)

PERRY: The gentleman’s time has expired. I thank the gentleman and recognize the gentleman from Maryland, Mr. Harris.

HARRIS: Thank you very much, and thank you all for being here. Obviously an important topic. I’m a physician, an anesthesiologist, I’ve been using fentanyl for 40 years — not personally, but professionally.

[LAUGHTER]

(1:58:08)

But I will tell you, it’s a very unusual drug in that it is so potent that a very, very small amount can be lethal. And the consequence of transporting it across the border is, it doesn’t take up a whole lot of space. A very large amount, a very valuable amount can be transported in a small space.

So I offered amendments to the appropriations bill last year to restore border wall funding, repeatedly. The majority said, oh, no, fentanyl is not an issue because it only enters at the ports of entry. Mr. Judd, I see your reaction to that. I’m thinking, wait a minute, this is a very, very potent drug. You could carry a million dollars worth of it in a big pocket. If you were carrying pure fentanyl.

And I’m thinking, well, if you’re not patrolling between ports of entry, why wouldn’t it cross?

So it’s of interest, that I note that in June, Gloria Chavez, who I think has appeared before one of the appropriations committees before, commented that, and I quote, “for the first time we’re starting to see these tactics where fentanyl is being smuggled between ports of entry.”

Wow. So lemme get it straight. We have over a hundred thousand deaths in the United States from opiods. Increasing amount of fentanyl deaths. It’s my understanding — and I want to ask you this question — Sheriff Lamb, I got to talk to him about this a couple of days ago, in Pinal County. He told me there were over 9 million fentanyl pills seized at the border just in the first nine months or ten months of the year. 

(1:59:50)

So, first of all, I didn’t even know they put it in pills. The danger of this, of course, is this pill is not manufactured in a FDA-approved facility, you don’t know how much is in it. The end user I’m sure some of them crush it, to get to, for an injection — and you don’t know how much it is. 

And I think that’s why we’re seeing the deaths that we see. Because it’s an uncontrolled administration of a very, very potent drug.

So, first of all, is this a trend we’re seeing that this is coming across the border as pills? I’m told that 9.5 million was more than the total amount of seizures in the three previous years, so obviously there’s an exponential growth in this. 

And is it coming between the ports of entry? Because, again, between the ports of entry — you’ve got to have a wall. I’m sorry, as you’ve said, quite emphatically, you have a ninety percent increase in efficiency in seizures and stopping things crossing between the ports of entry.

So specifically, because all of us — they’ll all answer the same thing to any of us, “oh, you’re not going to stop fentanyl by building a wall, because it’s coming in ports of entry.”

Is that the darn truth, now?

(2:00:58)

JUDD: I would say, let’s exercise some common sense, but it’s not common. So, let’s exercise some uncommon sense.

A port of entry is a secure location. We can take apart a vehicle if we want. You have no rights at a port of entry. So, that vehicle is open to inspection, to do anything you want with that vehicle to try to find if there is something in that vehicle.

Between the ports of entry, are completely and totally different. Because once you enter into the United States, even if you enter illegally, you still have all of the rights the constitution affords you.

And if there’s nobody there to detect you and apprehend you, of course. Of course the cartels are going to push it through between the ports of entry. When they know that there is absolutely no chance that we are going to apprehend that narcotic.

HARRIS: So, in fact, are we seizing more than ten million — and these are the ones we seize. Because, for every one we seize, I don’t know, if it’s like the illegal people entering, for every one you seize you might have one, twice, three times as many that you haven’t seized.

Nine million pills is a heck of a lot. Because every one of those, administered improperly, I’ll betcha could be fatal.

JUDD: If we seize even five percent of what’s coming across the border, we’re lucky.

HARRIS: So your estimate is, there may be a hundred million pills, two hundred million pills, trafficked across the border, of this lethal drug. And we know it’s lethal, cause we’ve been using it for forty years, medically. That’s just astounding to me. Where is, you know, as the gentleman from Louisiana, Mr. Higgins, said, this is beyond belief.

How can the Congress of the United States, the administration, stand by and see thousands, tens of thousands of Americans including young Americans die needlessly while we have a border that is obviously porous to such a dangerous substance.

What can we do? Very briefly tell us, how do we solve that problem?

(2:03:05)

JUDD: That’s why we are so ticked off. Normally I’m a fairly even keeled individual. But any time that we talk about this I get extremely upset. Because, again, we want to protect the American public and we’re not able to.

The only thing that I can say right now, because you do not hold the gavel, you can’t even be over on the Hill right now, having this hearing. The thing that I have seen that helps and works is when the American public knows what’s going on, and people know they’re in jeopardy of losing an election.

When people are in jeopardy of losing an election, it’s amazing what they will do. But if they do not feel that they’re going to lose that election, they’re going to continue to pander to their base, and that’s it.

HARRIS: So short of building a wall, I mean, what do we do to stop the flow of fentanyl?

PERRY: The gentleman’s time is expired, we’ll let you answer the question.

JUDD: So, again, when you hold the gavel, policy. Enact proper policy that will allow us to secure the border. And that policy, again, is stop the catch and release. 

Donald Trump did that. He stopped catch-and-release and illegal immigration dropped exponentially. And illegal drug smuggling dropped exponentially because we were able to go after the criminal cartels.

BIGGS: Thank you. I’m wrapping up here, I guess, which is good. I asked to have the last opportunity to ask questions and our Chair has left for just a few minutes, he’ll be back. But I thank, again, Freedom Works for setting this up and helping us, providing the facility. I thank Melissa from HFC for all of the work she did to set this up, and I thank our witnesses, great witnesses. Mr. Johnson thank you for being here, Brandon, ah, Mr. Judd, Mr. Edlow and Mr. Bensman, appreciate all that you do, and appreciate our members from the Freedom Caucus who are here today, and all those who are watching at home.

Now, my tack is — I appreciate all of the questions my colleagues have asked, and um — I’m going to start with you, Mr. Johnson, real quick. Are you receiving support from state or county law enforcement at all with the dangerous predicament that you’re family is in on the border.

(2:05:18)

JOHNSON: [Inaudible] tried to convey our concerns to our state government, our federal, our senators and stuff, we get no response back most of the time. In fact, when all this stuff started early on in twenty [inaudible] national guard resources off the border, our local sheriff’s department they, just like every law enforcement agency across the country is seeing attrition at a horrible rate.

So there’s little to no patrols done down here by our sheriff just because they don’t have the manpower to do it. State police, very few.

BIGGS: I’m sorry to hear that. It’s good to see you again. I was down on your ranch with Yvette last time, so, good to see you again, and we’ll keep working on your issues as well.

(2:06:10)

Mr. Judd, in 2006 Congress ordered the Secretary of Homeland Security to take all actions necessary to ultimately achieve and maintain operational control over the entire international land and maritime borders. And Congress defined “operational control.” Mr. Judd, the Border Patrol agents that you represent, on the front line every day, is Secretary Mayorkas maintaining operational control of the border today.

JUDD: He’s not even trying.

BIGGS: He’s not even trying. He has an obligation to at least try. He has failed to try. This is the point I’m trying to make, and it dovetails onto what Mr. Roy was asking about. Because Mr. Roy was trying to lay the predicate, ultimately, for what I introduced some time ago which was an article of impeachment against Secretary Mayorkas. 

I think he has committed high crimes and misdemeanors. He is openly defying the law he is supposed to enact. I’m not asking you for a response, Mr. Judd. 

[LAUGHTER]

JUDD: May I, real quick?

BIGGS: Yes.

JUDD: So, you said that you submitted a letter in May asking how many people CBP has released, ok?

BIGGS: Yes.

JUDD: He came back and he gave you 164,000. Let me speak to the mindset here. It was clear that you wanted the total number that were released. That’s clear.

So, 164,000 was the number that the Border Patrol released. That’s the Border Patrol. Then, then, HHS released another 135,000 unaccompanied children. So the Border Patrol transferred those people over to HHS, and those people were released.

BIGGS: That’s 300,000.

JUDD: Now we’re up to 300,000. Then on top of that, look at the Title 8 proceedings that we put people into, and transfer to ICE, that ICE ultimately walked out their door as well. That’s under the purview of Secretary Mayorkas right there.

(2:07:56)

So, right there alone, those numbers, and all you have to do is look at the bed space ICE has, you can confidently say, that DHS has released anywhere between 600-700,000 people in the year 2021. And yet Secretary Mayorkas came back and gave you a figure of 164,000.

Was that honest? I know that’s rhetorical. You tell me if he’s —

BIGGS: Obviously, to my mind, he’s trying to hide something, he’s trying to hide this. 

I want to go to Mr. Edlow on this, and it deals with basically this. When you were working for ICE, under the Obama administration, he attempted to limit enforcement of immigration law and restrict ICE’s ability to do its job. How much further has the Biden administration gone in basically emasculating ICE in its ability to fulfill its statutory requirements?

(2:08:55)

And also, Mr. Bensman, I’ve been thinking about this, Mr. Edlow may need to answer this — are we using parole, the parole authority, in the way it is intended under the statute? But let’s answer the first question.

EDLOW: To answer your first question, looking at the September 30 memo, I believe this goes much further than the President Obama prosecutorial discretion, and even President Obama’s PEP program. The threat to national security, the threat to public safety and border security threats, there are so many, as I said earlier, so many loopholes, so many loose definitions, and the fact that there needs to be so much, so much agreement by all levels, up to, I think, the Field Office director in many cases to actually get an enforcement action against somebody, it really handcuffs ICE’s ability to carry out its mission.

(2:09:50)

And we start on this memo with the underlying thought, or the underlying premise that everyone here, essentially — and I’m paraphrasing — deserves to be here. 

It’s not about deserving to be here or not. It’s about whether or not there is an enforcement action that is legal under Title 8 of this law. That’s — and suddenly we’ve just erased that completely. So, really —

BIGGS: Which is a violation of Title 8.

EDLOW: Correct. 

BIGGS: In and of itself. So this administration is wilfully, violating Title 9.

EDLOW: It is.

BIGGS: So, my time is expired, I just want to — we didn’t get to the parole question, which I think is critical, but, nor did we get into the distinction between POE’s and between POEs.

EDLOW: If I may, the answer to the parole question is very simple. Yes, they’re violating the statute.

BIGGS: Yeah, I needed you to say that. [LAUGHTER] But of course they are. Of course they are. I just wanted, as we close, again, thank everyone. But Brandon, convey our gratitude to your folks, please. Appreciate what they do.

With that, thank you again to Melissa and staff who made this possible, and with that we’re adjourned.